Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 176 posts

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#31

Post by rayiner »

defen wrote: post #18
Zimahl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly the Supreme Court has been a bit to pro-government to my tastes lately. I'd have to disagree. We've seen GPS tracking thrown out and other curbs on invasions of privacy. This court seems very interested in broadly defining privacy.

IANAL but IIRC the GPS tracking was thrown out on narrow technical grounds - without a warrant the cops can't trespass upon your vehicle to install the tracker. They didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with the tracking itself. In other words, it would be just as illegal for the cops to surreptitiously attach an inert brick to your car without a warrant.

That's not a narrow technical ground. Requiring involvement of the judiciary versus not requiring it is a huge distinction.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#32

Post by dreamdu5t »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

That's incredibly alarming. This is Obama's justice department too, headed by people he personally appointed.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#33

Post by defen »

rayiner wrote: post #31
defen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but IIRC the GPS tracking was thrown out on narrow technical grounds - without a warrant the cops can't trespass upon your vehicle to install the tracker. They didn't say there was anything inherently wrong with the tracking itself. In other words, it would be just as illegal for the cops to surreptitiously attach an inert brick to your car without a warrant.

That's not a narrow technical ground. Requiring involvement of the judiciary versus not requiring it is a huge distinction.

To clarify - they (in my recollection) didn't say anything about the appropriateness of automated monitoring of people's movements in public places. It's already ok for the cops to tail you without a warrant. But automated vehicle-tracking via drones without a warrant (for example) is still up in the air. No pun intended. It wasn't really a ruling in favor of (or against) privacy.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#34

Post by will_brown »

This is definitely a victory and kudos to the EFF, but keep this win in perspective. The Court only ruled on the gag orders attached to the NSLs.

Therefore, as of now the executive can still issue an NSL, without a gag order attached, which is still the equivalent of a warrant less search and seizure. So there is still a larger fight ahead in getting the Courts to rule the NSLs are Unconstitutional.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#35

Post by sixQuarks »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base.

In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#36

Post by r00fus »

sixQuarks wrote: post #35
mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

As someone who is not affiliated with either party, I really don't get Obama supporters. He was supposed to bring change to the white house, instead, he has expanded Bush-era secrecy and has eroded our civil liberties even further... and not a peep from his support base. In my view, democrats are the lesser of two evils, but I'm just surprised that nothing has been done about this.

The depressing part is realizing that Obama is actually the lesser of two evils (two elections running), and that worse could be happening right now in terms of rights erosion and increase in security-state.

There is no left-wing remaining in power in this country. You only have corporatists and reactionary extremists corporatists.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#37

Post by KoulMomo »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #32
mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

That's incredibly alarming. This is Obama's justice department too, headed by people he personally appointed.

Obama's justice department has been just as horrible, if not more-so than Bush's justice department.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#38

Post by r00fus »

will_brown wrote: post #34

This is definitely a victory and kudos to the EFF, but keep this win in perspective. The Court only ruled on the gag orders attached to the NSLs. Therefore, as of now the executive can still issue an NSL, without a gag order attached, which is still the equivalent of a warrant less search and seizure. So there is still a larger fight ahead in getting the Courts to rule the NSLs are Unconstitutional.

Don't just give them kudos. Send the EFF dollars.

Re: Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them

#40

Post by anigbrowl »

mmastrac wrote: post #6

This part is a big WTF: "After the telecom challenged the NSL, the Justice Department took its own extraordinary measure and sued the company, arguing in court documents that the company was violating the law by challenging its authority."

This is exactly what's supposed to happen; the DoJ brought the dispute to the judicial branch and asked a court to resolve it, as opposed to arresting people or seizing control of the assets. They didn't seek the breakup of the company or the arrest or ruin of its officers, they asked the court to require compliance with what they believed to be a valid request in the form of the NSL. The court sided with the defendant, and the DoJ is going to have to abide by that unless they win at appeal.

This is exactly why we have a judicial branch to begin with. You should be celebrating.

Post reply on HN