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Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

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Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#121
So the chief architect of Google+ wants to know why people used Google Reader? Can't he ask Google employees who should know this because they built the damn thing and documented their challenges and findings?

Or read the most upvoted complaints on open forums like HN or Reddit? Especially since he's architecting an ahem social product, shouldn't he already be comfortable doing that? And shouldn't he value the diversity of those responses more than those from Google+ buddies? I guess "dogfooding" has become more valuable than understanding.

Finally, my favorite "Zune" moment: "NB: The comments have filled up!"

I am sure there are technical reasons why more than 500 comments is not allowed, but none of them are user-centric.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#122

How can anyone expect serious and fair treatment when half of their post is threatening what he'll do with posts that don't conform to his specification? Trolling everyone in advance is not a good strategy for gathering feedback from community. If he can't face the regrets of the community, he should just keep his mouth shut, have a bit more respect towards others.

Because people on the internet are dumb, especially when talking to someone from a big company like Google. Who decided to stop providing a particular service for free.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible that Mr Zunger woke up this morning and thought , "This is a great oppourtunity to get a bunch of vague and unsubstantiated feedback on a product that is being shutdown. I'd like to spend half my day moderating comments". It could also be that he wanted to redirect some of the passion for google reader in a positive direction. Make Google a bit more empathetic and friendly. It could be some combination…

Why would that sadden you? If you worked there, wouldn't you do something similar?

Yes, I would do the same thing. The only mistake I see is the way they handled the Google Reader announcement, which Mr Zunger wasn't involved in.

Then again, if I were so smart, I wouldn't have made the lemmings comment. I meant it as a mild joke, though you and other people interpreted it as an serious insult to 500 people and Mr Zunger's character.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, seriously can you elucidate? He could at least meet with someone who had worked on the project.

Once Reader lost favor inside the 'plex people didn't want to work on it because it wouldn't show well on their resume. (you don't get promoted for applying CPR to a dead product and manage to keep it alive in intensive care for another budget cycle). So there were no doubt people who were working on other projects who had previously worked on Reader sometimes fixing bugs, and there was probably a product manager som…

Once Reader lost favor inside the 'plex people didn't want to work on it because it wouldn't show well on their resume. (you don't get promoted for applying CPR to a dead product and manage to keep it alive in intensive care for another budget cycle)

Yeah, this is not the organization that should be acting as de-facto curators of the Internet, I'm thinking. What's being described here isn't a cathedral or a bazaar, but a bureaucracy.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#125
I liked Reader because it was a great tool, and wasn't a platform like Facebook... but since Google wants to be a platform now instead of a toolmaker, I'm not surprised they are killing the two tools I use daily: Reader and the iGoogle portal as my custom homepage.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fairly common knowledge that Reader had zero support inside Google, and hasn't had any support in several years.

It seems to me that it didn't need much in the way of support. I have been using it for several years and have never experienced so much as a glitch. That could be down to excellent support, of course, but to me it seemed a mature product that could have been left to run exactly as is for any length of time and nobody would have complained. I just don't see why they couldn't have just left it running as-is, without a…

I don't disagree, but that seems to get into the gray area where we don't have enough information. Some of the other Google discontinuations were attributed to bandwidth usage in excess of any possible revenue mechanism. (I'm not aware of whether or not that was debunked, either?) Was that the case here? No idea. It seems plausible that Reader uses more bandwidth than Translate would.

Differently, Reader does not seem like the kind of app that would inspire a lot of uniquely hard engineering problems. (I.e., any hard engineering problems would probably be shared by several other Google services.) That seems to suggest that far fewer engineers would be attracted to working on it exclusively, and any that did wouldn't have any significant investment in Reader as a product.

There are valid reasons to discontinue even a mature product with a reasonable amount of success, populist or monetary. I dislike that Google declined to share those (though I sympathize with the managing principle of "just do it; don't explain why"), but I doubt I'd run any company the way Google is run in the first place, so my opinion on that front isn't really useful.

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#128

From the Google guy's post... " I'd like to integrate those ideas into future versions of many Google products, and try to capture that value." ... ugh. No! I don't want all that crap pieced out across many different apps. Just give me a damn reader. Charge me for it or use my reading habits to inform ad targeting, I don't care, just find a business justification to keep it around. Don't try and put some half-assed v…

I think the real reason user numbers haven't grown as rapidly as expected could be the difficulty introducing it to a new user.

I've tried to explain how powerful it is, how it centrally gathers so many diverse publications, how it gives a new perspective on global events or political sensitive topics.

But it's a blank screen, the welcome wizard is helpful (I started with Apple and Google collections and quickly added Planet Gnome and Mozilla), but it's not the same.

Google+ is a product that tries to do everything, but makes the simplest things difficult. After Buzz, Google made discovery impossible, so G+ users accumulate very slowly. I'd like to "subscribe" to a circle, say Linux kernel or Node.js developers, but instead I have to get linked to someones G+ from somewhere like here and then follow just that user. I should be able to subscribe to that entire circle with one click, and have it appear as a subgroup on the left sidebar, and the, Presto, we have 50% of Google Reader.

I would suggest Reader be replaced (if it must) with G+ Curator, a reader for feeds including RSS and Atom, but also G+ Circles, third party feeds like Twitter or Tumbler (if possible), mayabe Google Groups or even a gmail filter.

I would use the Reader API for this, it's basically an atom feed aggregator, and could convert all those other inputs into Atom feeds the same as it does Atom and RSS today. I would translate the current feed IDs into G+ ids.

The problem with Google dropping RSS is it basically kills the prospect of sites bothering with RSS, they look to Tumblr and the like and think there's something there, but they find they can't easily browse other feeds, and it becomes like Facebook (now), a mess of pithy sayings and 'viral' photographs that people probably don't bother to read. Then, at some point Tumblr (or some other site) shuts down and the community goes with it, the orgranization is lost and the users find something else to waste their time on.

But really, unless Google looks at fixing problems with G+ and makes it something that people want to use, we'll be not talking about it's shutdown a year or two from now

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So like, the "Subscribe" button, and the list view? That's what was useful. I really don't get what he's aiming for here... obscure features that may have existed that only some people thought were useful?

Weirdly enough, none of the readers I tested can replicate that. Qbix (list-view takes too much space, not available in "show all") and The Old Reader (no equal indent blog name -> post title in all view, shows no text snippets in list view) come closest. Especially TOR looks like a great replacement but it's still pretty overloaded. > There are 25746 users in the import queue ahead of you. And it has no "Export" as…

Okay, why did I write Qbix? What I meant was bazqux [1] and I just got a mail that list view in all is now available and they are thinking about offering a more condensed view :)

[1] http://bazqux.com/

Re: Chief Architect of Google+ requests clarification on Google Reader

#130
post #108
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the internet? Yes, always.

I'd like to believe that people here on Hacker News are smarter than that.

Man, lots of downvotes. I guess it's bad to expect anything good from HN users.
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