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This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

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Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that gets in the way of nutrition, taste wins every time. It's actually worse than that. A major current research thread is on the low-level mechanisms of "food reward" and the interaction of the brain and obesity. For example, Stephan Guyenet at the University of Washinton researches this area[1]. Even if nutrition is fine, hyper-palatable foods[2] can have a negative impact on health for a variety of reasons.…

Do you have a better source than someone's blog?

Gueynet regularly cites his own and others' peer-reviewed, published research via his blog and twitter account. He also reviews research results, which is valuable to nonspecialists trying to gain context in a new field. My intent in posting his blog was as a convenient reference to the larger body of work that he authors and cites.

Let me expound on that: with a few exceptions, most scholarly papers on diet, metabolism, gut function and disorders, metabolic syndrome, etc. are difficult to digest in isolation. Interpreting and critically reviewing new results often requires a large amount of domain knowledge and context by way of other research results.

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#342
post #53

Eating to me is a leisure activity, like going to the movies, but I don't want to go to the movies three times a day. For anyone that doesn't understand that statement, I recommend taking a few years off work, where you spend your time getting up early every day, doing something all day (hiking, walking, gardening, building, whatever) and go to bed late in the evening (i.e. Full days of activities you want to be doin…

Taking off work to do this, is absolutely great and i recommend it for everyone as long as you can. But whether something like cooking is a PITA, is mostly up to you and what you make out of it.

in 2008 I've took a seven month unpaid leave from my job to travel through central america and the caribbean. I never felt buying, cooking or eating was wasted time. Quite the contrary. Some of the most memorable moments of my whole journey came with those. Being it, cooking with people from all around the world in hostels, learning how to open a coconut and make a spoon out of the shell with a machete (yes, pretty touristy), or getting invited by a local family and let the kids show me how their favorite dish is done.

And I wasn't an avid chef before. I barely cooked by myself back home. Now i love it. Every step of the process. Its like programing – with real time compilation.

Yes, it is really time consuming. When I had other things to do, i just didn't spend that much time on it. I actually never had three meals a day (and i don't have now either).

I understand the statement and I find the idea of a having a food replacement in some cases very interesting. Its not anything new after all. But in my opinion, his motivation is questionable. Honestly, this Soylent-Shake thing remembers me of employers trying to squeeze everything out of their workers for sheer productivity. But, to each his own. If that guy is happy with his choice, he should continue doing it. If people blindly follow his way, its not his fault – they'd follow someone/something else. (As long as he is not starting a big campaign, saying that his way of life is the only right one)

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#343
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Extraordinary claims, extraordinary proof, or GTFO." > "I see this guy's protocol as nothing but poisonous in the long run." You place a burden of evidence on him that you yourself in this very post violated on a number of occasions. You CANNOT call his diet poisonous simply because you disagree with it. You admitted it yourself: > "Current research is showing that we are only just beginning to gain understanding…

The burden of evidence should be on the person claiming to have a miracle drink. The burdon of evidence should be even greater when it's a non-natural source, as Nassim Taleb argues in Antifragile, "The "non-natural" has to prove its harmlessness." If you don't take this viewpoint, you end up with cigarettes, transfat and radium jewelry.

He seems to be very conscious that this is in effect an experiment, that might be risky as well. E.g. from his site ( http://robrhinehart.com/):

"I am reticent to provide exact brand names and instructions because I am not fully convinced of the diet's safety for a physiology different than mine. What if I missed something that's essential for someone of a different race or age group"

But he is interested in actually gathering more data, even if not exactly formally enough for a proper study:

"So…I'll just ship you some of my batch. If you are willing to consume exclusively soylent, and get a CBC, chem panel, and lipid blood test before and after the week and share your results with me it's on the house. Bonus points for getting a psych evaluation before and after. The brain is an organ. I can ship it worldwide but it would be nice if you were in San Francisco so we can meet in person."

Further down on his blog, he has also posted PDF's of his bloodwork.

While he certainly does not have sufficient evidence of general safety and effect, he is aware of that and seems to be actively interested in learning about any flaws in what he's done so far.

> The burdon of evidence should be even greater when it's a non-natural source, as Nassim Taleb argues in Antifragile

This, to me, is ridiculous. A vast range of dangerous poisons are readily avaiable in nature.

I used to pick a lot of mushrooms, and can safely identify perhaps a dozen types common where I grew up. But every year there are people who die agonizing deaths from consuming various nasty toxins because they didn't pay close enough attention to what they picked. And the safety of most mushrooms is unknown - we simply don't have data, and the effects can take a long time to show.

In some cases, popular mushrooms are known to be toxic, such as false morels that contains gyromitrin. They are seemingly safe after boiling. Except there is still gyromitrin in the mushroom, just in small enough quantities that you're ok as long as you don't ingest too much. It's typical to recommend no more than one meal per season, as the poison is stored. But many mushrooms contains compounds we don't know the effect of, and where it is perfectly possible that no effect would be noticeable for a very long time - properly cooked false morels for example, might have no effect on you for years, until you get a bit careless with the cooking (a common way for people to get poisoned by false morels is to stand over the pot while boiling it...)

Nature has an abundant supply of horribly nasty toxic substances that might pass for food for a while.

This is before getting into what "natural" even means.

Everything has to prove its harmlessness. It's just that some things we have a lot of existing data for that at least demonstrates a certain level of safety.

But in the absence of data, I'm no more going to be willing to chew on some random "natural" substance than I'd be willing to ingest some random synthetic substance.

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#344
post #25

>Soylent contains all of the nutritive components of a balanced diet, but with just a third of the calories... This worries me. It's not a misquote, either. From his blog^0 : >...I get all the nutrition and energy I need with about 1/3 the calories the average American consumes... The average American consumes 2,757 calories^2 . There's a term called the Basal Metabolic Rate. It is the amount of calories your body ne…

Not saying this guy isn't a quack, but I have seen studies (or articles about studies, at least) by reputable universities on low calorie diets that suggest they increase your lifespan.

I can't recall the details, but if you're interested, start googling - it's a legitimate field of study with some surprising outcomes (to a layman like me, at least).

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#345
No matter what you think of this guy or his product, you have to give him props for being his own guinea pig.

I, for one, hope that he proves everyone wrong, and a year from now, I'm mixing up my own Soylent, because though I do love a good meal, I'm a busy person, and I often find myself eating simply to sate hunger. If I could replace that footlong sub with a glass of soylent, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he doesn't have a 'miracle drink'. He has a generic food mash and his only claim is 'contains basic nutrients and calories'.

He says it contains all the nutrients the body needs. That is a big claim.

Given that he is asking for feedback from others who decide to try it, and on his blog warns that he is not sure how it might work for others, and is offering to provide samples to people who agree to have blood work done before and after trying it for a week, he seems acutely aware that while he thinks it contains all he needs, he does not yet have sufficient evidence to be sure.

He's not written a scientific paper - don't assume that every single word he has written is meant to be interpreted in the strictest way possible.

By all means be sceptical, but while he might very well be wrong, at least he appears to be earnestly looking to identify and correct any flaws which already puts him far above a lot of charlatans selling risky diets.

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#347
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because his optimization is at the expense of all other considerations . He even admits to being pleasantly surprised that his glop tastes good . That means he'd have consumed it even if it didn't — taste is secondary to convenience. He's taking what we currently believe to be true about the human body's nutritional requirements, dumping that into a blender all chemistry-set-style (it even has oligosaccharides !), an…

But if [he gets some] analogue of scurvy or something, I... will probably even have nontrivial schadenfreude. That is the most conservative thing I've heard in at least a year, and I live in the Midwest. With a mindset so diametrically opposed to that of the hacker, how can you stomach HN?

Wow, thanks for the judgement, and for quoting selectively to imply actual malice on my part.

So I'm "conservative" and have "a mindset diametrically opposed to that of a hacker" because I think someone is more likely than not to get shit wrong in trying to replace the human diet, evolved over aeons, with something he makes in his blender?

I'm all for challenging convention, disruption, experimentation, growth, and such. More than a little revolution, more than merely now and then, is more than just a good thing, in my book. Frankly, I think there are more human institutions that are moribund at best — and more likely actively harmful to the human condition — and desperately in need of replacement than not.

IMO, diet — or at least a healthy diet, where one eats actual food — is not among those things. It seems pretty clear to me that eating plants, and to a lesser extent, things that eat plants, or things that eat things that eat plants... is what our bodies have evolved to do, and correlates very strongly with health and longevity. It's equally clear that eating processed things correlates incredibly highly with all kinds of malady and morbidity.

Now, along comes someone who thinks he knows better than that. I wish him luck. I really, honestly do. I just don't have high hopes for his experiment. And, yes, while I probably will have some schadenfreudey, "Well, you probably should have seen that coming" if he gets it wrong badly enough to suffer some harm, I most certainly don't actually wish that upon him.

We see on practically a weekly basis some new and exciting way in which our understanding of human nutrition has been wrong all along. "Soylent Dude" is basing his recipe on that understanding, which has been demonstrated over and over and over again to be incomplete, misguided, based on faulty information — and even deliberate misinformation — and just plain wrong.

Given all that, please tell me how he's not likely to be missing something, getting something wrong, and potentially doing serious harm to himself, because I just don't see it.

Re: This Man Thinks He Never Has to Eat Again

#349

Why are people are having such a visceral reaction to this idea? Finding alternatives to solid, "fresh" food is an issue we will have address in the near future, if not right now. With forecasts about population growth rapidly rising (We said it would reach 10 billion by 2100. It only took 13 years to jump from 6-7 billion.) This could be implemented not only for hunger in impoverished nations, but for world overpopu…

Where have I heard this before? Oh that is right! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

Anyway, world hunger right now is not a problem of there not being enough food, it is a problem of food distribution. There is enough arable land in the Democratic Republic of Congo to feed all of Africa, but wars, greed, and other things stop it from happening.

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