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Cost of Living

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Cost of Living

#31

Post by jdavid »

comatose_kid wrote: post #14

As a married person who applied to ycombinator (and didn't get selected): You are totally focusing on the wrong things - think about the application, your product, and your team (not in that order actually). Worry about the other stuff once you get in. - Visiting/bringing wives is nice, but keep in mind that apart from the expense, your cofounders won't really be seeing them all that much. -Make sure all or a majorit…

We are discussing it tonight, and for those people out there with out 1 year leases, I just do not know how you wing it so much.

Right now I am on a 3 month notice monthly lease, and I have a roommate that is planing on leaving in the spring. I have verbally committed to him to stay till march, it would be really sh*tty of me to leave him early and to also not give my landlord proper notice, especially since we work in a professional environment together.

So if i am going to be decent and honest, i will need to support my $800 Milwaukee, habit until march just to keep the peace.

Of course, it might be that the only way to win, is to just think of yourself. I would rather not live in such a world, and so often times I am willing to support the consequences of being decent to people and friends. It has tended to pay off for me in the long run.

Re: Cost of Living

#32

Post by jdavid »

ok, for now, it seems like the same debates that always rage when making a budget. you can either be honest with your self and try to spend less, or you can lie to yourself and not have enough.

I am strongly in the camp of planning for the reality of the situation. when it comes to entertainment, its less than 5% of the budget, i think this seems fair. That is 2 dates at the movies, 2 nights of drinks, or one SCCA race a month.

as for food, i might be able to get by on ramen, but i might also miss out on other opportunities if i was out and about.

also, unlike many of the teams applying we nearly have a product ready to role now, for us this is all about the networking and so our strategy is quite a bit different than the make it go strategy, for us this is about a life style shift, its about committing to the start up and if that means moving to silicon valley, this might be the kick in the pants to do it. From my stand point that means that the wives will most likely move too. They may not move at first, but i suspect they will want to move out there.

If you want to see a demo of our app in adobe air. you can find it at: http://s3.derby.adobe.socialhelix.net/zcalendar.air

Our goal is to start serving two customers by jan'08, which would be before we leave, and have a revenue potential of $1,000 - $20,000 a year depending on how well our app works.

You can see an early demo we did for one of our customers last year at http://info.socialhelix.com

Our biggest fear is how do we scale our application, do we have all of the kinks worked out, will the security model of the web keep shifting, etc...... How can we do this full time?

Just recently some of our team finished paying off their weddings and cars. I am just trying to figure out what it will cost us to go out there so we can make a decision on what our next move is.

Re: Cost of Living

#33

Post by yubrew »

jdavid wrote: post #30
JeffL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600 a month rent is what I'm paying, splitting a large rental house with 3 other people in Santa Clara, so definitely doable. I agree that the food is really high. If you are really trying, the one time cost of a rice cooker and a 10 lb bag of Basmati rice from Costco will go a long way, as will bag lunches instead of going out. If you try, food can really cost very little.

i have found more opportunity working in a cafe, and going out, than i have by working in an enclosed space. I figure 2-3$ for breakfast (egg, cereal, organic milk) lunch will cost (12$) at any reasonable panera, etc... and if i get something else cheap for the day, that means another day i can invite someone to lunch for a networking opportunity. that leaves me with ($10-$20) for dinner. eating just noodles does not…

If you are on a budget, one of the first things to cut is extraneous expenses. By cooking for yourself, you can have the possibility of better tasting and more nutritious meals, lowering your food budget, and saving time.

Why spend $12 on panera when you can make a chicken breast sandwich for $4?

Re: Cost of Living

#34

Post by anamax »

jdavid wrote: post #30
JeffL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600 a month rent is what I'm paying, splitting a large rental house with 3 other people in Santa Clara, so definitely doable. I agree that the food is really high. If you are really trying, the one time cost of a rice cooker and a 10 lb bag of Basmati rice from Costco will go a long way, as will bag lunches instead of going out. If you try, food can really cost very little.

i have found more opportunity working in a cafe, and going out, than i have by working in an enclosed space. I figure 2-3$ for breakfast (egg, cereal, organic milk) lunch will cost (12$) at any reasonable panera, etc... and if i get something else cheap for the day, that means another day i can invite someone to lunch for a networking opportunity. that leaves me with ($10-$20) for dinner. eating just noodles does not…

Where (specifically) are you getting a $3 breakfast and networking? (I know that you're not talking about Il Fornaio, Buck's, Hobee's, Late for the Train, Flea Street Cafe, etc.) Or, were you just winging it?

Is this essential networking or is it talking to someone else while being away from work? (No, the waitron doesn't count.)

How many outside networking meals do you think you should have per person-week? (The answer probably depends on the team-member, but it's never 21 because some of those meals should be with other team-members and for some team-members the number is probably around 2.)

As far as your diet "requirements", are they really different from those of a grad student?

BTW - If you're paying for every networking meal, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Cost of Living

#35

Post by jpalacio486 »

comatose_kid wrote: post #15
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #6

Living expenses are the reason I'm not applying. Unless you somehow lose intelligence and execution ability when you get married and have kids, the structure doesn't make sense to me. It seems to be geared towards single, foot-loose folks. As somebody who's put long hours in on multiple technology projects, I don't feel that having a higher overhead translates to being a worse risk. After all, what are we talking abo…

If you think risking the delta between what YC offers vs. living expenses for a few months is worth not applying, you might (as a potential founder) want to reconsider your appetite for risk.

Amen to that.

Re: Cost of Living

#36

Post by jpalacio486 »

I'm glad im not married, have no kids, and can manage to survive on the minimum if I must. That said, a lot of people out there aren't so lucky, but ultimately it comes down to what you really want. If you want to continue working for a useless paycheck while the job requirements go up, then dont apply. If you would like to risk it all for the slim possibility that your idea/product might succeed, then by all means go for it. YC here I come!

Re: Cost of Living

#37

Post by anamax »

jdavid wrote: post #30
JeffL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600 a month rent is what I'm paying, splitting a large rental house with 3 other people in Santa Clara, so definitely doable. I agree that the food is really high. If you are really trying, the one time cost of a rice cooker and a 10 lb bag of Basmati rice from Costco will go a long way, as will bag lunches instead of going out. If you try, food can really cost very little.

i have found more opportunity working in a cafe, and going out, than i have by working in an enclosed space. I figure 2-3$ for breakfast (egg, cereal, organic milk) lunch will cost (12$) at any reasonable panera, etc... and if i get something else cheap for the day, that means another day i can invite someone to lunch for a networking opportunity. that leaves me with ($10-$20) for dinner. eating just noodles does not…

> I have found more opportunity working in a cafe, and going out,

That may be true, but are you really lacking in opportunity if you're in a decent startup?

>i can invite someone to lunch for a networking opportunity

Is this "networking" for the startup, you, or is it a euphemism for a social life?

Let me suggest a test. Networking involves enough pre-meeting prep to enable a non-trivial agenda. Post-networking, there will be a debriefing to evaluate whether you achieved your goals and possibly what to do about it. You may not achieve said agenda every time, but if you do, that will often result in work that you have to do for the startup. If it rarely does, then either you're not very good at networking or you're not networking for the startup.

So, let's hear more about the value of this networking to the startup.

Re: Cost of Living

#38

Post by rickcecil »

Of course, there's always the path to starting up without going to YC. You just might not be a good match for YC. Doesn't mean that you can't be successful, it just means you're going to have to find alternative routes to success.

Re: Cost of Living

#39

Post by DanielBMarkham »

anamax wrote: post #29
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. No it's not. But neither am I here to please the universe. I'm just saying that it's not a lot of money. Perhaps it is to you. I can make that money as pocket change in a very short amount of time in my normal consulting business. If YC wants to pay 10 bucks for their team members, more power to them. Not my call. They've got their math to do and I've got mine. Even families have profit/loss statements and brea…

The universe isn't complaining.... Whether or not it is a "lot of money" is irrelevant. The relevant question is "Is it enough to meet YC's goals?" Maybe Markham's non-participation gnaws at PG, but I'm guessing that it doesn't. BTW - The vast majority of YC particpants are foregoing significant income and the lifestyle that goes with it, a lifestyle not unlike Markham's. Why is only the latter worthy of consideratio…

Thank you for reminding me why I don't post on internet boards. When the cheap shots fail, the personal attacks begin. It seems like it is always easier to make yourself look good by hacking apart somebody else. I was hoping this board would be a little better than that.

For the record, I'm not saying I could do anything. I'm not saying PG or anybody else stays up at night worrying about my participation or lack of it.

You know nothing of my lifestyle, and you don't know me. I didn't post in here to make any kind of comment on YC, PG, or anybody else. I only wanted to point out that the cost of living is a factor for other people in whether they participate or not. That's it.

BTW, it's not a question of "is it enough to meet YC's goals" It's a question of whether it is enough to meet both parties' goals. That's the way business works -- both parties have capabilities and needs. Business is when there is a trade between these capabilities and needs. It's never a one-way street.

Re: Cost of Living

#40

Post by DanielBMarkham »

sbraford wrote: post #26
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, guys. These replies are just pot shots. Take the snarkiness somewhere else. I've worked 3-6 month projects where every minute was slinging code. And I regularly put my house and family on the line for my business. I already have a business. I show companies how to run technology teams. I'm just looking to move into startup country because I like that environment more than the suit and tie world. I've led 5-p…

There's snarkiness and then there's honest to goodness questions about whether one can afford to get into Y Combinator. (if you can get that far, of course) I personally would need to save up for a while & pay down some debt before even trying to apply. But I would never knock the idea of cutting ramen-noodle checks to YC founders. It's at the very least much better (for the probably outcome of the business) than cut…

Since in my job I have to quote hourly and daily rates to people, I always keep in the back of my mind a rate for "barely living", a rate for "swimming", and a rate for "comfortable living". I'm always aware of the amount of money it takes to pay the mortgage, lights, car payment, etc.

That's the thing about getting married and having kids: it makes your life a lot more complicated. Personally I don't mind living out of an apartment and eating noodles for 3 or 4 months. I could even skip a couple months on the mortgage if I had to. But when they start taking away things your family needs to survive, like a house, then that's not eating steaks, that's starving. While I have no problem gambling my family's assets on my business, I don't feel it is morally right to actually lose everything they have.

Now if it was just me, that's a different story. At one point in my life, due to a fire when I was in my 20s, I lost everything I had. In a way, it's a totally liberating experience. Most people really don't need all that crap they surround themselves with every day.

That's why I replied to the article. I can see both sides of the story. Most young single guys don't need a lot of money (especially with Web applications) to make a go of it. The numbers get bigger with a wife, and they get even bigger with kids. That's not wanting Filet Mignons, that's just life.

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