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Sick of SEO Scumbags

thehodge.co.uk

121–130 of 132 posts

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#121
post #30
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not anti SEO because it's unregulated or unstable. I'm anti-SEO because it seeks to subvert the search engine's mission (return the most useful results for the searcher* ) to something more akin to advertising (return the results that the person paying for SEO wants). It pollutes and subverts the web experience for everyone. It's not the practices that are the problem, it's the whole idea. [*]OK so I acknowledge…

Many SEO techniques are in line with the user's best interest. Sitemaps, Keywords, accessibility (clean source code) etc. help Google to understand the content of your page better. That's the reason why people like Matt Cutts exist. Of course, much of SEO IS dirty, and I am not sure if there is serious movement of "ethical SEO".

It's still a problem that those help. If there's a text file or a Flash movie or a badly-encoded PDF file on an unmaintained FTP server somewhere that answers my question correctly, and a sitemapped keyworded HTML5 app on a site with high PageRank that doesn't have the answer (or has a wrong answer), I want the unmaintained FTP server to be the #1 hit for my search, not the white-hat-SEOed page.

Of course, making those problems go away is an AI-complete problem.

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#122

I'm sick of SEO people pointing the finger at "evil" SEO people. SEO is basically gaming search engines instead of contributing anything of value. It's not a respectable business, it's a self-perpetuating protection racket. If there weren't any SEO people we wouldn't need any SEO people. You only hire an SEO for one of two reasons: 1) too cheat Google, and 2) to compete with all the other sites that hire SEO's... The…

The problem is that search engines are still stupid.

Even with Google there are biases towards keywords in the title, url, or domain, even when it isn't relevant.

People needed SEO even when no one was selling it.

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#123
post #119

I'm sick of SEO people pointing the finger at "evil" SEO people. SEO is basically gaming search engines instead of contributing anything of value. It's not a respectable business, it's a self-perpetuating protection racket. If there weren't any SEO people we wouldn't need any SEO people. You only hire an SEO for one of two reasons: 1) too cheat Google, and 2) to compete with all the other sites that hire SEO's... The…

SEO is like wanting to win in sports, everybody wants to be first. You do SEO becaus you want to become number one in google search results. Nothing wrong with that. SEO people are like sports coaches. You have good coaches and bad coaches. Good coaches will help you with an effective training programs, and analyze the competition. Bad coaches will tell you to use drugs. Good SEO people will help you win by improving…

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Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#124

I'm sick of SEO people pointing the finger at "evil" SEO people. SEO is basically gaming search engines instead of contributing anything of value. It's not a respectable business, it's a self-perpetuating protection racket. If there weren't any SEO people we wouldn't need any SEO people. You only hire an SEO for one of two reasons: 1) too cheat Google, and 2) to compete with all the other sites that hire SEO's... The…

SEO defenders argue that despite GoogleBing's claims of trying to rank based on user experience, in practice there are ranking signals that have nothing to do with user experience, and therefore "bad" SEO is justified to optimize those extraneous signals. They don't help improve the site; they improve search rankings, though, and until GoogleBing do away with those extraneous signals, you have to play the SEO game or you'll get beaten by equivalent-quality sites who do.

I too prefer improving a site rather than gaming search engines, and I've argued against SEO consultants who want to do things like keyword-stuff urls, but now I sympathize with the pro-"bad"-SEO argument even though I prefer not to get involved in that kind of SEO.

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#125
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reality is that Google is a saturated distribution channel that is horrible at identifying quality content that is not heavily branded or pushed in mainstream media. I'm really not sure I agree. My sister in law is a french tutor in a small English town. She wanted a Web site and I suggested that she put something together using Weebly. I did some basics with her to ensure that reasonable keywords appeared in t…

In my opinion this really is the easiest way for quality content to rank and I highly recommend it. However, and not to downplay how nice this must be for your sister, but these are relatively obscure terms that don't get many hits. If you are trying to rank on some of the hottest money making keywords on the web, the type with a 6 to 7 figure payday, then you are on a totally different level of difficulty. Orders of…

If I'm looking for a French tutor in x-town England I want to find his sister. It's a win-win.

Are any of the people you are pushing offering a win-win in these 6-7 figure payday, or are they just yet another asbestos law firm, that wants the same 1/3 as everyone else, and will fill out the settlement forms just the same as everyone else?

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a site accessible and search bots have no problem crawling and indexing your site. Create quality content. Read the webmaster guidelines. Google wants your content to rank on its own merits. At risk of sounding bitter, this is really not the best advice to share with any group of startup entrepreneurs who might believe it and stake their business model on it. As with many of us here, I've struggled with this iss…

As always with SEO it is dangerous to make broad sweeping statements. What works for a small local website, doesn't have to work for a big casino/travel website and vice versa. The advice I gave was sincere though. In practice I see many businesses aiming for links, when their content just isn't up to par. Quality content alone (without links) is enough to rank in many niches. If you get to the hyper-competative SERP…

At risk of sounding acerbic.... :)

(1) Can you provide an example of a business with over 100k in revenues that has been founded in the last 2-3 years in a remotely competitive niche and is at or near the top of the search results for the most likely general search terms? How about a bootstrapped business?

(2) And can you honestly say that the mass of blogspam that regularly hits HN disguised as business advice is really high-quality content?

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#127

This post is full of sloppy writing and sloppy thinking. The author doesn't even define SEO, or "scumbag SEOs." Are all SEOs scumbags? What should they be doing instead? We can do a lot better than lazy, vague, completely meaningless rambling.

Whilst I agree the writing is a little sloppy (as I've agreed above) I think I clearly define what I believe is an SEO Scumbag, defining SEO and practices will just cause debate about that rather than the actual subject

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#128
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what a lot of modern SEO is, actually. I think we'll see increasing amounts of information made available by private companies over this next year in an effort to rank higher for their key phrases. Also genuinely useful tools/web apps/calculators. The rest is site structure. I know people can and do still game the system, but that's not a good long-term plan and it's a flat return. Creating a good site with g…

Why do you say over the next year? You can see all the changes Google has made over the last ~8 years and say the same thing each time an update came out. Black hatters seem to find the constant adapting part of thrill of the chase. The chase of money from Google rankings really. If they can make money, why would they stop? I see Cutt's job as making it just difficult enough to catch the black hatters, but easy enoug…

It is ever-changing, but until recently Google has been cutting out the really obvious, flagrant abuses of the system.

Last year, Google annihilated directories, blog comments and article directories, as well as punishing unnatural-looking link profiles (lots of links from low PR sites, for instance).

They're continuing to refine and expand on this, including certain forms of blog posts in their devaluation net, but more importantly the industry is still catching up.

There are still people out there writing and selling long-form articles, there are still people charging companies to place their links on directories. There is a lag as companies and "SEOs" who are out of the loop fail to realise that their activities are no longer resulting in increased traffic - and then after that lag the SEO's business will collapse.

Many voices in the SEO community are looking at a new paradigm - "no hat" and "true black hat" for want of a better term. The "no hat" spirit is, crudely and generally, "If this wouldn't be useful if SEO wasn't a thing, I shouldn't do it." In other words, good SEO comes as a side effect of good implementation, site design, CRO, social media, content, etc. The "true black hat" meanwhile engages in criminal activities, fraud, hijacks websites and generally takes things on that are inCREDibly risky in an effort to turn a quick buck and disappear.

The old grey and black hats, and to an extent even the white hats, aren't squeaky clean enough for Google any more. At the same time, the loopholes they're trying to exploit are already known and closed (or closing rapidly). So this year, I think this type of SEO will fade away, possibly completely.

I believe that it's possible I'm completely wrong, of course.

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#129
post #102
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is some group of N companies competing for some keyword, starting from the same 'lower quality' web sites, and they all do the same 'good' SEO stuff, then they'll all be right where they started again in terms of rankings, very likely. It's an arms race. Competing for a ranking is pretty much a zero-sum game because no matter how much money you sink into it, only one can come out on top. Compare and contrast…

Unless no one ever hears about your life changing stuff. Telling Google what you think your service or product is about via SEO ultimately tells the users who find the search result. THEN you win the game.

But if everyone else tells Google the same information equally well, then you're all back where you started. Except you spent a lot of money on some consultant who cannot realistically make any guarantees about what they deliver.

Re: Sick of SEO Scumbags

#130
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this really is the easiest way for quality content to rank and I highly recommend it. However, and not to downplay how nice this must be for your sister, but these are relatively obscure terms that don't get many hits. If you are trying to rank on some of the hottest money making keywords on the web, the type with a 6 to 7 figure payday, then you are on a totally different level of difficulty. Orders of…

If I'm looking for a French tutor in x-town England I want to find his sister. It's a win-win. Are any of the people you are pushing offering a win-win in these 6-7 figure payday, or are they just yet another asbestos law firm, that wants the same 1/3 as everyone else, and will fill out the settlement forms just the same as everyone else?

It's an interesting question, and I'm really just an arm-chair SEO when it comes to the world of extreme money keywords. What I do know from experience is that there are a lot of these extremely profitable keywords. With a little research you can figure out what the top 10-100 keywords are, by traffic, in the world or just in the USA.

Some are totally 100% owned by big corporations who get the majority of the hits for that term and expanded phrases. Some might say that's legitimate because that big corp is the best result for that word. But there are plenty of other keywords that are owned by (formerly) regular webmasters who are now on top and fighting to keep it that way, with a sizable incentive to do so. These keywords are highly competitive and those webmasters will do anything it takes to keep the payday rolling in.

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