Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members • Hacker News Board

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#11

Post by CurtMonash » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:10 AM UTC

I was last at Harvard in 1981, but even as a teaching fellow for one course I was faculty. My ID said "Faculty", I could eat at the Faculty Club, etc. Ditto when I was a Post-Doctoral/Research Fellow there. (Some of my fondest post-doc memories are of sharing a lunch table with guys like Tom Schelling.)

I'm guessing that "Resident Deans" are like what we used to call "Senior Tutors". Whether or not that's the case, it seems pretty clear to me that Harvard tradition would call for them to be treated with the same courtesies (other) faculty are. Indeed, by a large margin, they probably have MORE influence on undergraduate students' academic success than any one professor or teaching fellow generally does.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#12

Post by ghshephard » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:11 AM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #6

The question, in my mind, isn't about whether or not it was OK for Harvard to search their mail server, but rather why they would need to do it. First of all, does Harvard attempt to punish the person who leaked the controversy to the media? And if nearly half of the 279 students were suspected to be cheating and were going to be asked to withdraw, would they really expect the issue to remain hush-hush?

The issue wasn't people leaking the controversy to the media, it was that A resident dean forwarded private email from the administration giving guidance on how to advise athletics students on how to withdraw gracefully.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#13

Post by rm999 » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:13 AM UTC

dmor wrote: post #7

This seems really silly to me. In large institutions it is very common for this to happen, and the email accounts and all the content in them belongs to Harvard. This is the case with pretty much any employer. A clever faculty member looking to leak to the press should a) not use their Harvard email address or b) better yet, pick up the phone to provide the tip.

I think that misses the point, and the article discusses why. It's not about what Harvard could do; it's about standard protocol for treating faculty, and it's about trust. In the academic world faculty are usually treated with incredible amounts of respect, and several people interviewed in the article see Harvard's actions as a breach of that standard.

This guy puts it well:

>Harry R. Lewis, a professor and former dean of Harvard College, said, “People are just bewildered at this point, because it was so out of keeping with the way we’ve done things at Harvard.”

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#14

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:20 AM UTC

dmor wrote: post #7

This seems really silly to me. In large institutions it is very common for this to happen, and the email accounts and all the content in them belongs to Harvard. This is the case with pretty much any employer. A clever faculty member looking to leak to the press should a) not use their Harvard email address or b) better yet, pick up the phone to provide the tip.

The difference is that faculty tend to believe (rightly) that academic freedom gives them the right to communicate freely relative to the average employee.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#15

Post by armored_mammal » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:21 AM UTC

hnriot wrote: post #2

Read the terms of your employment... This is common practice in any organization. Work email is the property of the company or organization.

When I've been involved with a public university there are lots of disclaimers and notices that stuff done via University email is not private and isn't subject to requirements for a warrant should the institution want to review it, etc.

However, I would expect that Harvard, being a private institution, and desiring to make its faculty members feel secure, would adopt a standard that's more stringent with respect to institutional access, and that its members, feeling that they're part of the good ol' Harvard crew would feel as though there were an additional informal standard layered on top of any official policy.

In any case, I don't think public or private institutions are likely to treat email at all like private enterprises, and I'm not sure why one would think that is so.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#16

Post by thinkcomp » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 4:33 AM UTC

The faculty shouldn't be stunned. Harvard has been reading the e-mail of students for a long time. Why should the faculty be any different?

I'm fairly certain they read my e-mail in 2003 (which I wrote about in my book). Judith Kidd, then a member of the administration, happened to know that I'd hired lawyers in a meeting before I had ever told her. While it's remotely possible that she learned of this from another source, I think it's highly unlikely.

The reason why Harvard (or any university) is not your average employer is that academic institutions, and particularly those with big brand names, are supposed to be beacons of free speech in this country. Professors should be able to discuss or investigate pretty much any [legal] topic they want to without fear of censorship or other repercussions. The notion that the administration could spy on faculty (or students for that matter) without notice could have potential chilling effects that are actually fairly serious.

But am I surprised? Not at all. The Harvard Administrative Board has been and continues to be an abomination. Despite all of the scholarship on the subjects at the law school, due process and transparency remain foreign concepts to these people.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#17

Post by dmor » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 6:09 AM UTC

rm999 wrote: post #13

dmor wrote: post #7

This seems really silly to me. In large institutions it is very common for this to happen, and the email accounts and all the content in them belongs to Harvard. This is the case with pretty much any employer. A clever faculty member looking to leak to the press should a) not use their Harvard email address or b) better yet, pick up the phone to provide the tip.

I think that misses the point, and the article discusses why. It's not about what Harvard could do; it's about standard protocol for treating faculty, and it's about trust. In the academic world faculty are usually treated with incredible amounts of respect, and several people interviewed in the article see Harvard's actions as a breach of that standard. This guy puts it well: >Harry R. Lewis, a professor and former…

I don't think it is disrespectful to search their emails though, Harvard is fundamentally an institution funded by donors. This scandal majorly damage the reputation of the institution and was embarrassing to high profile donors and alumni. Protecting that is obviously worth more to Harvard then whether or not professors feel they have academic freedom. The only problem with all of this now is that the public also knows the emails were searched. Seems Harvard can't keep any secrets anymore.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#18

Post by NoPiece » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 6:36 AM UTC

shardling wrote: post #5

hnriot wrote: post #2

Read the terms of your employment... This is common practice in any organization. Work email is the property of the company or organization.

The existence of email at universities predates the use of email by other organizations -- thus, there are a different set of norms expected by faculty.

They do have a different set of norms, but probably more due to the academic culture. The first email was sent at BBN a company that was part of ARPANET, along with governmental organizations as well as the universities.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#19

Post by sirclueless » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 6:42 AM UTC

cbs wrote: post #9

hnriot wrote: post #2

Read the terms of your employment... This is common practice in any organization. Work email is the property of the company or organization.

I find attitudes like this fascinating. If they were within their legal right to do this, that explains why the resident deans are complaining instead of suing . When did the fact something is permitted become reason to shut down or marginalize discussion on if it should happen and/or be permitted?

Actually the resident deans aren't complaining at all. They don't have tenure, and so they could be terminated if they spoke out against administrative policy. It's the professors who are complaining.

Re: Harvard Search of E-mail Stuns Its Faculty Members

#20

Post by intended » Mon, Mar 11, 2013, 7:03 AM UTC

thejosh wrote: post #3

hnriot wrote: post #2

Read the terms of your employment... This is common practice in any organization. Work email is the property of the company or organization.

Yep. If you have any mail on your companies email server it's fair game. Hence why the need to keep work and personal life seperate is important and keep bitching out people on work emails (or any emails for that matter..) is super important.

This ignores that the bar for Harvard has been set higher though.