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Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

theatlanticcities.com

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Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#71

Post by 7952 »

wilfra wrote: post #35
redact207 wrote: post #10

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

If San Francisco allowed the sale of contaminated food there would be demand for it from people who have no choice. This is really a consumer rights issue. The landlords should provide a basic standard of safety for such high rents. The scope for exploitation is huge and the government should protect people from that. The size issue is less important.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#72

Post by bjourne »

wilfra wrote: post #51
bjourne wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the alternative is to have the government build subsidized housing and then enact strict price controls so that even poor families can afford to live reasonably. That's how it was done in Singapore for example and is why they can live in "spacious" 30-70 m^2 apartments despite having a higher population density than Hong Kong. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore .

I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves.

You are free to hold your opinion. But at least be upfront with that you consider it an ideological issue as there obviously are reasonable alternatives to having poor people live in prison cells.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#74

Post by antihero »

wilfra wrote: post #35
redact207 wrote: post #10

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

Or, take money from people who are minted and have lots of money and use said money to make these poor people's lives less awful.

Wealth distribution on this planet is fucking terrible.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#75

Post by wilfra »

bjourne wrote: post #72
wilfra wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves.

You are free to hold your opinion. But at least be upfront with that you consider it an ideological issue as there obviously are reasonable alternatives to having poor people live in prison cells.

they are not being forced to live there, they are choosing to do so and paying rent. they are free to move anywhere else they want, including across the border to mainland china where it is much cheaper.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#76

Post by barry-cotter »

icebraining wrote: post #69

I find it odd that whoever build those houses decided to make tiny apartments instead of larger shared ones. For cooking, having a shared kitchen - even if used by many families - would probably help a lot, specially since it's cheaper and easier to make a big communal meal than having to cook for each family.

People value not sharing space a lot. In first world countries most of the worst things about being poor come from being surrounded by other poor people. Communal cooking is more efficient at basically every scale from 2 peson household up, where at its most egalitarian it's just taking turns to cook. But I am aware of no modern culture where most people eat communal meals; in fact the only exceptions I'm aware of are total institutions like prisons, monasteries or the military.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#77

Post by coldtea »

wilfra wrote: post #51
bjourne wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the alternative is to have the government build subsidized housing and then enact strict price controls so that even poor families can afford to live reasonably. That's how it was done in Singapore for example and is why they can live in "spacious" 30-70 m^2 apartments despite having a higher population density than Hong Kong. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore .

I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves.

>I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves.

The government IS the people. It's not some alien body as some people (mostly in the US) seem to think.

The government is the people voting to elect some representatives, so they can get some things done for them ("the country") that need massive co-ordination and central planning.

Of course it can go astray (politicians taking advantage of their power for their own benefit and such), but it's not like there such thing as "perfection" anywhere in life, be it private or public.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#78

Post by wilfra »

tehwalrus wrote: post #62
wilfra wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

to rebut this sticking to your libertarian premise (which I don't agree with, but you might actually listen then!): Government intervention caused this. The government strictly controls which land can be built on, and restricts supply so much that this is what is left. If government stopped restricting which land developers could buy, build on, and sell as housing (which is a bad idea for another reasons, but not lib…

Libertarians are not the only ones who believe it is not the governments responsibility to provide for the poor.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#79

Post by netrus »

icebraining wrote: post #69

I find it odd that whoever build those houses decided to make tiny apartments instead of larger shared ones. For cooking, having a shared kitchen - even if used by many families - would probably help a lot, specially since it's cheaper and easier to make a big communal meal than having to cook for each family.

Most of these apartments appear to be somewhat clean. I would totally life in such a place for some time without being worried about my health. SHARED facilities in similar settings tend to end up very dirty and problematic (or at least I experienced it like that in Europe - and no, I am not talking about student dorms :)).

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#80

Post by wilfra »

coldtea wrote: post #77
wilfra wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves.

> I disagree it is the governments job to give people a place to live. From the sounds of it, Hong Kong already does a lot of this. At some point, people need to take care of themselves. The government IS the people. It's not some alien body as some people (mostly in the US) seem to think. The government is the people voting to elect some representatives, so they can get some things done for them ("the country") that…

Right and if the people of Hong Kong thought the government should be providing suitable housing for everybody who comes to Hong Kong (note that many of these people are foreigners) then they would vote in politicians who would make that happen.
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