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Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

theatlanticcities.com

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Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#61

Post by redact207 »

greggman wrote: post #55
bjourne wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the alternative is to have the government build subsidized housing and then enact strict price controls so that even poor families can afford to live reasonably. That's how it was done in Singapore for example and is why they can live in "spacious" 30-70 m^2 apartments despite having a higher population density than Hong Kong. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore .

Is that really how it works in SG? I've been told housing prices are outrageous there and if you're too poor to afford public housing you get shipped off to the poor house and are not allowed to leave unless you can find someone to take responsibility for you. Note: I've only visited SG so this is 2nd hand info through my friends in SG.

That's sort of how it works here. The Singaporean housing market is divided into HDB (public housing) and Condo (private housing). Condo's nowadays start at around SGD 1m for something small and basic, but aren't such a bad deal with banks charging interest of just 1.8% on a 40 year loan. Most Singaporeans can't afford this with an average monthly wage of just SGD 2,000 per month.

Public housing on the other hand is heavily subsidised and somewhat controlled for PRs and citizens. FYI Singapore was a giant slum up until the government formed the HDB board in the 1960s. The CPF (Singapore's retirement fund) can be used as a deposit against your apartment which nowadays start at SGD 300,000 if you go far from the city. As you can guess, this results in many people having a lot of cash tied up in non-liquid assets when they retire that leads to a host of other issues.

I moved to Singapore 3 years ago from Australia and love the place and prefer life here to Hong Kong any day.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#62

Post by tehwalrus »

wilfra wrote: post #35
redact207 wrote: post #10

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

to rebut this sticking to your libertarian premise (which I don't agree with, but you might actually listen then!):

Government intervention caused this. The government strictly controls which land can be built on, and restricts supply so much that this is what is left. If government stopped restricting which land developers could buy, build on, and sell as housing (which is a bad idea for another reasons, but not libertarian ones) then this problem would go away.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#63

Post by wyuenho »

wilfra wrote: post #52
wyuenho wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median income in HK per household per month is HKD 18000 in 2010[1] (USD ~2300). Everything you can buy in HK is essentially NYC prices. You can't feed your family with this income, so they are living in HK, taking advantage of free education and healthcare. There is also no "Chinese rural areas" anywhere near HK. HK is an island and a peninsula. North of HK is Shenzhen, also a big metropolitan area. There's no c…

Shenzhen is still much, much cheaper than HK. I had a 2 bedroom 90 square meter apartment in Shenzhen in a brand new building and a nice part of town for 3,000 RMB/month. The same in Hong Kong would have been roughly 10 times more expensive. And Shenzhen is an expensive mainland city.

Alternatively, these people choose to live in these cages that cost ~ HKD 2K and save the rest for their families.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#64

Post by Too »

berlinbrown wrote: post #2

I live in apartment. Not a micro-one. But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?

Try to store one, or maybe even two expensive and dirty mountain bikes in an apartment. Especially with a crazy girlfriend around.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#65

Post by yskchu »

bjourne wrote: post #44
wilfra wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

No, the alternative is to have the government build subsidized housing and then enact strict price controls so that even poor families can afford to live reasonably. That's how it was done in Singapore for example and is why they can live in "spacious" 30-70 m^2 apartments despite having a higher population density than Hong Kong. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore .

48% of the HK population already live in government provided/subsidized housing, that's already very high.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Hong_Kong#Housing_st...

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#66

Post by yskchu »

Adaptive wrote: post #49
bjourne wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the alternative is to have the government build subsidized housing and then enact strict price controls so that even poor families can afford to live reasonably. That's how it was done in Singapore for example and is why they can live in "spacious" 30-70 m^2 apartments despite having a higher population density than Hong Kong. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_Singapore .

Yes this. The HK govt is appalling in its disregard of the poverty line. (>6yrs in HK, and I'm no SG fanboy, but it is SO far beyond HK in this, there is just no comparison)

Can you quantify this? HK has one of the best welfare systems in the world.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#67

Post by greggman »

notimetorelax wrote: post #5
berlinbrown wrote: post #2

I live in apartment. Not a micro-one. But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?

Do you have children? Or a dog? It is usually a good idea to have one extra room per each member of the family. This way if you want to be alone for a while you can. Or if you want to listen to the music that others don't appreciate you can (headphones can be tiresome to wear).

plenty of cultures don't generally have room to be alone at home. Not saying I don't like the idea. Just pointing out that depending on where someone grows up the idea that they might have alone time at home might seem strange.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#68

Post by icebraining »

notimetorelax wrote: post #5
berlinbrown wrote: post #2

I live in apartment. Not a micro-one. But I imagine you can find solace in just having only the things you need. Why do you need a ranch size home and 20 acres?

Do you have children? Or a dog? It is usually a good idea to have one extra room per each member of the family. This way if you want to be alone for a while you can. Or if you want to listen to the music that others don't appreciate you can (headphones can be tiresome to wear).

Sharing a room with a brother is not that bad. You just learn to share the spaces. If I wanted to be alone, I usually took a walk.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#69

Post by icebraining »

I find it odd that whoever build those houses decided to make tiny apartments instead of larger shared ones. For cooking, having a shared kitchen - even if used by many families - would probably help a lot, specially since it's cheaper and easier to make a big communal meal than having to cook for each family.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#70

Post by danohuiginn »

hmsimha wrote: post #48
rhplus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'cage' appears to be so that resident can lock their belongings inside when they aren't there (you can see padlocks hanging on the doors of some). I can't really offer much of a useful statement on the realities of being chronically homeless (which is what these men essentially are) in a big city or on the root causes of the situation in Hong Kong, both social and economic. But I can say that the immediate needs…

That was the second thought that occurred to me as well (the first was to be absolutely horrified). The reporter said the rent for one of those cages is 12 (AUD I believe) per month. Likewise, that only left each cage dweller with 13 AUD per day from their welfare check for other expenses (which the narrator said was not enough to afford 3 meals every day after other expenses). So if the cost of living in a cage for…

it was AUD12 per square foot. So something like AUD180/month for one of the cages.
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