Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above • Hacker News Board

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#31

Post by wyuenho » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:15 AM UTC

matthewrudy wrote: post #26

wyuenho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little. Most people actually would rather stay in HK to take advantage of the better education and healthcare system for their children than moving to China for a __slightly__ more affordable place. HK is also a much safer city to live in. The food is generally safe and the police is fair and professional. Commuting between HK and China is also a big problem. Most jobs in HK are in the urban areas in HK, commuti…

Having commuted from Shenzhen for a few months, it seems a lot of people do actually do this. Mostly younger people though. The night buses from wanchai are full of HKers heading home to SZ.

I used to work with people who commute from Island South to SZ, but they only do it on Friday night and come back on Monday morning. In general, people living cages neither have the money nor time to commute.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#32

Post by irmbrady » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:15 AM UTC

As someone who is moving from the UK to HK in 3 months, with no job or visa secured, and attempting to bootstrap my (first) startup; this scares the crap out of me!

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#33

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:16 AM UTC

matthewrudy wrote: post #25

cantbecool wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean isn't that twice the size of a dorm room? It could not have been that bad.

I don't know what US dorms are like, but I'd guess they have some shared space to stretch out in. Maybe a kitchen or lounge. But what we're talking about is the room, and nothing else. That's not a great way to live.

[deleted]

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#34

Post by kevcampb » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

Does anyone have any idea of the costs of building vertically?

I ask as I generally love the idea of sky-rise buildings and high density housing. To me, Hong Kong feels almost utopian - like some sort of architects' playground. Stick thin apartments rising up through hillsides. Super dense housing, but the ability to travel 30 minutes and be in remarkable countryside. It really is remarkable.

I'd love to think this is the way forward, and regardless of opinion it seems the way the world is moving. People are migrating to mega cities, the world is urbanising. I guess the efficiencies you gain living this way are part of a real draw there. You don't need a car. Mass transport is cheap and efficient.

Which makes me wonder how Hong Kong's housing situation can be so dire. Even for the well off, the costs are prohibitive, and I dread to think how the poor manage.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#35

Post by wilfra » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:20 AM UTC

redact207 wrote: post #10

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#36

Post by wilfra » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:25 AM UTC

wyuenho wrote: post #21

robryan wrote: post #17

What kind of mobility do these people have? Could they choose to move to somewhere in rural China and get something of decent size?

Very little. Most people actually would rather stay in HK to take advantage of the better education and healthcare system for their children than moving to China for a __slightly__ more affordable place. HK is also a much safer city to live in. The food is generally safe and the police is fair and professional. Commuting between HK and China is also a big problem. Most jobs in HK are in the urban areas in HK, commuti…

You're saying housing prices on the mainland are only slightly more affordable than in HK? That's absurdly inaccurate. Housing is cheap on the mainland outside of prime areas of big cities. The job market is another story, the earning power in Hong Kong is much better - along with the other things you mentioned.

Many of these people are trying to make a better life for themselves and especially their children. To get there, they are dealing with horrible living conditions. I salute them for that. My grandfather did something similar coming to America from Italy and his whole family is eternally grateful. Future generations of HKers are going to feel the same way.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#37

Post by netcan » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:37 AM UTC

This is how urban poverty looks. It looked similar in Europe too. They called them Tenements here and every self respecting character in Irish fiction grows up in one.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#38

Post by zanny » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:43 AM UTC

cantbecool wrote: post #24

daeken wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the exact same. Then I lived in NYC for a year and a half in something like 180sqft. Never, ever again. Even things like having two other people in the place was uncomfortable. There was space for a full bed and a small desk and nothing more. There was no usable kitchen. It seems like something that can be dealt with, but doing it really, really sucks.

I mean isn't that twice the size of a dorm room? It could not have been that bad.

The largest dorm I had in college (in suite style where I had my own room) was 130 sq ft. If I had my own place, I'd at least want a bathroom and kitchen (I'd go crazy and ask for a laundromat set), but I could work with ~100 sq ft of other living space easily for just a bed / work desk / clothes basket or 3.

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#39

Post by wyuenho » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:44 AM UTC

wilfra wrote: post #36

wyuenho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little. Most people actually would rather stay in HK to take advantage of the better education and healthcare system for their children than moving to China for a __slightly__ more affordable place. HK is also a much safer city to live in. The food is generally safe and the police is fair and professional. Commuting between HK and China is also a big problem. Most jobs in HK are in the urban areas in HK, commuti…

You're saying housing prices on the mainland are only slightly more affordable than in HK? That's absurdly inaccurate. Housing is cheap on the mainland outside of prime areas of big cities. The job market is another story, the earning power in Hong Kong is much better - along with the other things you mentioned. Many of these people are trying to make a better life for themselves and especially their children. To get…

The median income in HK per household per month is HKD 18000 in 2010[1] (USD ~2300). Everything you can buy in HK is essentially NYC prices. You can't feed your family with this income, so they are living in HK, taking advantage of free education and healthcare. There is also no "Chinese rural areas" anywhere near HK. HK is an island and a peninsula. North of HK is Shenzhen, also a big metropolitan area. There's no commuting to these "rural areas" that's feasible. Also, to commute to China, you essentially have to leave your children in China, otherwise you'll be leaving your children in HK, and take a job in China instead, which defeats the purpose.

[1]: http://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/factsheets/docs/populatio...

Re: Apartments So Small They Can Only Be Photographed From Above

#40

Post by wyuenho » Sat, Mar 09, 2013, 9:50 AM UTC

wilfra wrote: post #35

redact207 wrote: post #10

It gets worse. The photos are not the bottom of the barrel when it comes to Hong Kong real estate. Those who are in the worst poverty are the ones who live in cages. It's literally a bunk bed with sides enclosed with cage wiring. They have no walls, minimal possessions and live day to day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU4jjdRzy3w Hong Kong is an intriguing city that I highly recommend to go spend some time in.

Good video. I disagree that the government should do anything about it though. What's the alternative, make them homeless? If there is both supply and demand, let people do what they want. If San Francisco allowed this, there would be far fewer homeless people, but the only options they give them are $2,000 a month apartments or living in the streets. So lots of people live in the streets.

The problem is there is no supply and lots of demand. I'm too lazy to google for this, but the latest figure is something like demand is 2-3x greater than land supply. The government absolutely have to do something about this or this city will implode.