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My granny is a programmer

blog.progopedia.com

11–20 of 35 posts

Re: My granny is a programmer

#11
post #2

Afaik, gender equality was much better in the USSR than it is today in the US.

To be fair you might expect that, if you have a command economy you can say "how can we get more women in IT?" and answer with "Take women out of nursing and put them in IT".

You can't do this and expect them to be competent IT workers.

You couldn't do this 50 years ago and you can't today.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair you might expect that, if you have a command economy you can say "how can we get more women in IT?" and answer with "Take women out of nursing and put them in IT".

You can't do this and expect them to be competent IT workers. You couldn't do this 50 years ago and you can't today.

This is the USSR , you don't care about that. If they don't work fast enough you can "incentivise" them.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#13
post #2

Afaik, gender equality was much better in the USSR than it is today in the US.

- Are you married? - Yes - Do you have kids? - No - Thank you for coming

- Ok, see you in court.

No proper company will ask those questions, let alone even hint at them. If they do, there will be a dozen employment layers willing to take on your case for free.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm... No. Not then and not today.

Well... It depends, I suppose, what you define as equality. I'm too young to actually remember this, but I know from various sources that women under communist regimes, at least in central Europe, were seen as capable of working as hard as men. There are many posters of women driving agricultural machines (I don't know the word in English - something that's used to harvest cereal) and doing various other works that a…

I've grown up with the same perceptions of gender equality in the Soviet job market. However, I get the feeling that this does not so much have to do with a heightened sense of morality or anything, as it does with the fact that work in the USSR was simply a chore or an obligation that was assigned to you. Often people didn't do a particular job because it suited their personality or they were exceptionally good at it, most jobs were government orders anyway. There was no such thing as career planning. People's careers sort of just happened.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> agricultural machines You’re probably thinking of tractors and harvesters.

Tractors, exactly. I even googled the actual thing: http://www.bwphotography.pl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/... The text below says, roughly: "Let's fight for the betterment of socialistic Polish villages".

Cute picture. But even after 50 years of this propaganda, I'm yet to see a woman driving tractors in Poland (yes, I've seen many men driving them).

Sometimes I don't know if feminists are really serious or just trollin'...

Re: My granny is a programmer

#16
post #5

This doesn't surprise me. In Europe it's not uncommon to find women in computer science or engineering. In the US it's not unheard of. In Australia it's extremely rare and most of those that you do find were born overseas.

In India, you will find an equal number of women and men in computer science engineering. There is no stigma associated with being a programmer either (It was never extremely uncool).

In practice, I have found that there are women who are as good as men when it comes to programming. I strongly believe that women don't have any inherent disadvantage. It is just social conditioning.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#18
post #16
post #5

This doesn't surprise me. In Europe it's not uncommon to find women in computer science or engineering. In the US it's not unheard of. In Australia it's extremely rare and most of those that you do find were born overseas.

In India, you will find an equal number of women and men in computer science engineering. There is no stigma associated with being a programmer either (It was never extremely uncool). In practice, I have found that there are women who are as good as men when it comes to programming. I strongly believe that women don't have any inherent disadvantage. It is just social conditioning.

Please tell me more.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#19
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tractors, exactly. I even googled the actual thing: http://www.bwphotography.pl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/... The text below says, roughly: "Let's fight for the betterment of socialistic Polish villages".

Cute picture. But even after 50 years of this propaganda, I'm yet to see a woman driving tractors in Poland (yes, I've seen many men driving them). Sometimes I don't know if feminists are really serious or just trollin'...

Cute, right? I have the same impression, but this may be because I didn't live then and I don't associate it with all the other things that happened then instinctively.

You're right of course in that it's hard to see a woman on a tractor, but what I'm saying is that 50 years of propaganda can't pass without any consequences, even if it was widely recognized as a propaganda and it was actively opposed by many. I think that these efforts actually did something for women, even if only a little. They - the communists - even did something for racial equality: they offered stipends for people from African countries (of course those aligned with communists only) and it was quite normal (I'm being told, please don't blame if that's wrong!) to see a man or a woman with different skin color in the university.

Anyway, while communists did many bad things, they at least sometimes tried to do something good. Someone better educated than me should say how those efforts fared - I suppose they were not that successful, because as you said, it's really hard to find a woman on a tractor :) - but it's worth noting, I think, that they were made.

Re: My granny is a programmer

#20
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tractors, exactly. I even googled the actual thing: http://www.bwphotography.pl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/... The text below says, roughly: "Let's fight for the betterment of socialistic Polish villages".

Cute picture. But even after 50 years of this propaganda, I'm yet to see a woman driving tractors in Poland (yes, I've seen many men driving them). Sometimes I don't know if feminists are really serious or just trollin'...

I am not an expert on tractor drivers' genders, but when I meet a female engineer over 30 in Western Germany, there is a chance > 80% her roots are in Eastern Germany.
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