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Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

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Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#81

Post by cwzwarich »

CleanedStar wrote: post #64
moxie wrote: post #36

What's interesting is that according to several narratives from those close to the central committee under Stalin, anti-semitic policies in the Soviet Union started from geo-political maneuvering rather than any inherent personal sense of racism. Sudoplatov, an NKVD agent who worked for Beria, wrote in his memoirs that the original Soviet post-war plans were actually to establish a Jewish republic in the Crimea , wit…

The Crimea was one idea, so was a semi-autonomous state out near Birobidzhan. The problem with saying that it was paranoia that some people in the Jewish community were trying to undermine the Russian government, is that, especially after the fall of the USSR, right wing Jews have openly boasted about how they HAD been working to undermine the Russian government, and were using the Jewish community in the USSR to do…

Which statements are you referring to?

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#82

Post by XEKEP »

dangoldin wrote: post #58
cema wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly concur, except that I am not surprised it could be a surprise for many whose minds were filled with an ideological view of the society they lived in. I remember how difficult it was for me to get used to the idea that I do not live in the best country, the beacon of hope for the world. And I was far from alone. My close friend's mother could not believe it until her son, a straight-A student from K to 12, wa…

Interesting. I was pretty young so I can't really chime in but I know my parents were in Leningrad (now St Petersburg) so urban areas may have had more awareness? They were also part of some underground Jewish study groups which would have given them a different perspective.

I guess you're right. The Leningrad, Moscow and Kiev were different from most of the USSR in many aspects, including official anti-semitism in universities. And Tashkent was yet another universe altogether.

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#83

Post by throwmeaway33 »

I'm always suspicious about these second hand stories; especially when they're dramatized like this.

For instance he says:

"You could apply to one and only one university. If you didn’t get in, you’d be conscripted into the army the following Fall."

And then explains how he applied to a second university and then how he was offered to apply to a local university in Tashkent.

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with his premise, it's just the whole thing is overly dramatized. My uncle also almost didn't get into MSU because they decided he was Jewish, and my dad was rejected and had to go to a different school. The whole thing was really weird because they decide your jewishness solely based on your last name. (which is sorta black magic)

Also, from everything I heard, antisemetism wasn't institutional - ie. directed from top down. I've never heard of the quota thing (if it existed, it was done on a school by school basis). For instance MSU was known for being very antisemitic, while other branches of government were not. You've got to remember that a lot of the revolutionaries were jewish, even Lenin was a jew (sorta).

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#84

Post by XEKEP »

liber8 wrote: post #56
davidroberts wrote: post #21

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

Can you explain about these "unofficial quotas against Asians"? I'm genuinely curious if this actually exists. Note that less than 5% of Americans are Asian, but: 40% of UC students are asian (and it's higher at Cal, UCLA and UCSD (i.e. the better schools)).[1] 23% of Stanford students are asian (probably higher since that excludes "international" and "decline to state").[2] 26% of MIT students are.[3] In other words…

The argument that Asians are over-represented and it proves the absence of any quotes reminded me of identical arguments I heard in the former USSR. They claimed over-representation of Jews in science, engineering, entertainment was a proof there was no anti-semitism!

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#86

Post by shn »

I wonder what is the root cause of anti-semitism? I always thought that anti-semitism is an illness that belonged exclusively to Europe, and they exported this "problem" to Middle East. Now I read that Soviet era, in multiple regions similar problem existed. But why? Do all other ethnics had their own fair share? If not why Jews? Or Jewish people are just more outspoken?

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#87

Post by davidroberts »

liber8 wrote: post #56
davidroberts wrote: post #21

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

Can you explain about these "unofficial quotas against Asians"? I'm genuinely curious if this actually exists. Note that less than 5% of Americans are Asian, but: 40% of UC students are asian (and it's higher at Cal, UCLA and UCSD (i.e. the better schools)).[1] 23% of Stanford students are asian (probably higher since that excludes "international" and "decline to state").[2] 26% of MIT students are.[3] In other words…

Two of those are California universities, where Asians form 13.6% of the population[1]. Since the average GPA for Asians in 2009 was 1623 and the next highest average (for white students) was 1581 [2] and the average GPA for Asians in 2009 was 3.09 vs. 2.88 for whites [3], I'm sure the percentage of Asians in California who earned the median SAT scores or GPA's at those schools was much higher than 14%, and was probably higher than the percentage of Asians in those schools. Also, I might note that UC Berkeley (Cal) and UCLA are located in metropolitan areas with Asian populations that are larger than the California average.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California [2] http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-08-25-SAT... [3] http://nationsreportcard.gov/hsts_2009/race_gpa.asp?tab_id=t...

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#88

Post by davidroberts »

liber8 wrote: post #56
davidroberts wrote: post #21

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

Can you explain about these "unofficial quotas against Asians"? I'm genuinely curious if this actually exists. Note that less than 5% of Americans are Asian, but: 40% of UC students are asian (and it's higher at Cal, UCLA and UCSD (i.e. the better schools)).[1] 23% of Stanford students are asian (probably higher since that excludes "international" and "decline to state").[2] 26% of MIT students are.[3] In other words…

Two of those are California universities, where Asians form 13.6% of the population[1]. Since the average GPA for Asians in 2009 was 1623 and the next highs average (for white students) was 1581 [2] and the average GPA for Asians in 2009 was 3.09 for Asians vs. 2.88 for whites [3], I'm sure the percentage of Asians in California who earned the median SAT scores or GPA's at those schools was much higher than 14%, and was probably higher than the percentage of Asians in those schools. Also, I might note that UC Berkeley (Cal) and UCLA, are located in metropolitan areas with large Asian populations.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California [2] http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-08-25-SAT... [3] http://nationsreportcard.gov/hsts_2009/race_gpa.asp?tab_id=t...

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#89

Post by bluekeybox »

shn wrote: post #86

I wonder what is the root cause of anti-semitism? I always thought that anti-semitism is an illness that belonged exclusively to Europe, and they exported this "problem" to Middle East. Now I read that Soviet era, in multiple regions similar problem existed. But why? Do all other ethnics had their own fair share? If not why Jews? Or Jewish people are just more outspoken?

Something I've been wondering about myself... Can't answer your question, but can only point out that you are a bit mistaken to treat Europe and ex-Soviet territories (especially their European part) as two completely separate worlds, since before the Iron Curtain came to exist, they shared quite a bit of common history.

More reading about anti-Semitism in that territory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising#Jews

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#90

Post by vxNsr »

dangoldin wrote: post #28

Thanks for posting. I just sent this to my parents who were also in the Soviet Union until we all emigrated to the US. Here's the response from my mom: Yes, it's typical. The only thing which surprises me that the dad's dad insisted on military in 1970 - there was an antisemitic campaign in military in 1961 and grandfather could not miss it. Usually families knew which colleges accept Jewish kids, which did not and u…

I haven't yet shown this to my mom (native russian, emigrated in early 1980s) But she told me that she basically had to blackmail the head doctors of the Moscow Medical School to get accepted because they officially were not allowed to accept any Jews, though about 10-15% of the school was still some how Jewish.

She also had trouble because she applied for a visa to Israel before she finished Med School and was of course denied, but once you have that on your record no one is allowed to hire you so she had to do some more blackmail to get into residency when she completed residency she was finally given permission to leave. (Which was nice because she had no idea how to get a job once she finished residency after being a refusenik)

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