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Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

ivolo.me

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Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#51
post #13

Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here: As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw away account. With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection bias. Most of them c…

So, how big a problem is antisemitism in Russia, in your opinion?

Right now I'd say that being jewish is ok compared to some other nationalities, as there are quite a few reports of people murdered on the street in major cities for looking like immigrants from Caucasus or being black, but I haven't noticed such reports about jews.

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#52
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, how big a problem is antisemitism in Russia, in your opinion?

It's huge. It permeates all levels of the society. There are jokes, stereotypes and anecdotes that are essentially part of the culture. Most (if not all) of the people have at some point been subjected to them, and even if they are not antisemitic, they are certainly aware of the singling out of Jews. This dates back to the days of the USSR, but the prejudice is not limited to Jews anymore. Chechens, Georgians, Tajik…

Russians simply do not trust anyone and discriminate other ethnic Russians over anything.

Better dressed - hate you Better car - hate you Not from Moscow, you're a village idiot.

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#55
post #54

Such quotas were also in USA. Isaac Asimov originally applied to medical university, but was not accepted for being jew. Hi started writing sci-fi instead.

>Such quotas were also in USA.

Are you sure about that past tense? http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-...

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#56

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

Can you explain about these "unofficial quotas against Asians"? I'm genuinely curious if this actually exists. Note that less than 5% of Americans are Asian, but:

40% of UC students are asian (and it's higher at Cal, UCLA and UCSD (i.e. the better schools)).[1]

23% of Stanford students are asian (probably higher since that excludes "international" and "decline to state").[2]

26% of MIT students are.[3]

In other words, at (a small sampling of) the top schools, Asians are over-represented by anywhere from 400% to 1000%. It just doesn't seem like any sort of quota system exists, looking at the data.

[1]http://diversity.universityofcalifornia.edu/documents/divers...

[2]http://www.stanford.edu/dept/humsci/external/under/demograph...

[3]http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N31/admissions.html

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#57

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

I went to a a magnet school (Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology) which does NOT discriminate against Asians in the way that so many colleges do. Last year more than 50% of students were Asian-American. This is what these colleges are trying to prevent, rather than simply wanting to benefit their own children. I'm not sure that I approve of ANY targeted racial goals for schools, though I'm general…

>I'm generally in favor of class-based advantages for lower-income applicants.

I find it hard not to favor this. What's the point of encouraging diversity of skin color if you're not getting much actual cultural diversity? Students at top universities have much more to learn from the experiences of poorer students than they do from other upper middle class students who happen to have darker skin.

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#58
post #47

Thanks for posting. I just sent this to my parents who were also in the Soviet Union until we all emigrated to the US. Here's the response from my mom: Yes, it's typical. The only thing which surprises me that the dad's dad insisted on military in 1970 - there was an antisemitic campaign in military in 1961 and grandfather could not miss it. Usually families knew which colleges accept Jewish kids, which did not and u…

I mostly concur, except that I am not surprised it could be a surprise for many whose minds were filled with an ideological view of the society they lived in. I remember how difficult it was for me to get used to the idea that I do not live in the best country, the beacon of hope for the world. And I was far from alone. My close friend's mother could not believe it until her son, a straight-A student from K to 12, wa…

Interesting. I was pretty young so I can't really chime in but I know my parents were in Leningrad (now St Petersburg) so urban areas may have had more awareness? They were also part of some underground Jewish study groups which would have given them a different perspective.

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#59
post #9
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait, racism, in what part of the post?

discriminating against ethnic groups is usually also grouped into 'racism', and judaism is both a religion and an ethnic group. "It is important to note that my family was not religious at all. My father was not brought up in a religious tradition, and neither was I. Religion in the Soviet Union was in fact all but non-existent in those days. Most Christian Orthodox churches were destroyed or closed. In the few exist…

[deleted]

Re: Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

#60
I read down to the first picture then got a TLDR sense. I did a find for "Jew" and lo and behold, this was the "surprise" climax of this melodrama.

For one thing, before World War II, there was a Jewish quota in US Ivy League schools. Why focus close to home in 1940 USA though when you can hear a yarn from 1970 Uzbekistan, about as physically far from the majority of HN readers as possible?

Secondly, before World War II, the center-right, even moderate trope in Europe (and the US) was that the USSR was run by Jews. The typical picture ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterO... ) of the Red Army, run by Trotsky, and a politburo with Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, as well as others who probably were Jews with converted familiies (Krestinsky). So the right got to bash the USSR with being run by Jews when it was convenient, now they get to bash it for being anti-semitic when that is convenient. They get to have it both ways, shifting from one to the exact opposite depending on the times.

Third, after the establishment of Israel, Israel and the USSR came more into conflict as Israel allied itself with the US. Things were not that solid in that regard in 1948, but it became clearer over time, and was certainly clear after the 1967 war. This incident happened after 1967.

Jews in the USSR would go to a top flight school in the USSR, get their diploma, then immediately go to Israel or the West and get paid a high salary. In fact, certain parts of the Jewish community in the USSR encouraged this behavior. The USSR had limited resources, why should it spend enormous funds with its top scholastic positions educating Jews who were just going to leave?

The reality is this is what the other side demands. That the USSR give free Bachelors and Masters and Doctorates at its best schools, blocking those positions for Russians, and then the Jews who would get those degress would skip town with their free doctorates as soon as they get their diplomas, so as to make big money and build up the West.

Where could Jews get free education in the US? I'd like to get a free education at a top school in the US. That doens't have to be paid back, and the recipient would immediately move to China and build up their country. We don't have that now, yet people like to pontificate that the 1970 USSR should have offered that.

Also, most right wing Jews seem torn over their discussion of the USSR in two poles. On one pole they'll openly discuss (in English! Not even Hebrew) on Youtube videos and elsewhere how they used the Jewish community in the USSR to subvert and undermine the government. On the other hand, they talk about how crazy these governments were to think that Jews were trying to undermine their governments. They say they were trying to subvert the Russian government, but they can't help to boast in pride, in English even, how they did undermine the government and were successful in doing so. The US interned all Japanese people in the 1940s for much less. Yet the USSR didn't hand a free education to every Jew who wanted a free doctorate from a top university before skipping town, so let's bemoan how bad they had it in a country which no longer exists, in something that happened over 40 years ago...

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