We're ruling out that the ring effects people around it. I don't think we were ever told whether the eagles could resist its evil. Also, Frodo had to leave the company before this plan would have worked, since he started to realize the ring was corrupting the people around him.
Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
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Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#172We're ruling out that the ring effects people around it. I don't think we were ever told whether the eagles could resist its evil. Also, Frodo had to leave the company before this plan would have worked, since he started to realize the ring was corrupting the people around him.
Also, How It Should Have Ended already beat OP to this concept - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would also like to postulate the element of surprise. Sauron would never expect a weak, feeble creature like a Hobbit to be an adversary. But mostly I agree with your points.
Didn't Sauron know that the ring bearer was a hobbit?
Yup. But Sauron did not expect a hobbit to be an adversary. That's a salient difference, in the context of Tolkien works.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you read the whole article? "After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment. Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnais…
I never really understood this in the books. How could Sauron not know that their intent was to destroy the ring? It is made clear that Sauron can see Frodo's location when he puts on the ring. Frodo puts on the ring at various points throughout the series, each time increasingly close to Mordor. How could Sauron have not considered this to be their intent?
The drawbacks of the Ring that we become so intimately familiar with over the course of three books are all perks in Sauron's mind.
The approach of the Ring is thus the approach of an adversary, using Sauron's own power against him. Sauron was probably wondering why Aragorn didn't brandish the Ring the moment he arrived at the Black Gate to challenge him.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but this was never discussed in the book, so as to remove the eagle plot hole. But one could see it that way. Perhaps galdolf never brought it up, because he only had a gut feeling gollum would have a role to play, and that frodo wouldn't be able to rid himself of the ring anyway...?
I don't think galdolf could predict the exact role Gollum would play. It was just a hunch on his part (or at least the book makes it look like it is)
Gandalf's hunch was more of a faith-in-all-people kind of thing, IMO. That it turned out he was right twice (Gollum guided them into Mordor and was instrumental in destroying the Ring) really doesn't count that much in my opinion.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#176A few nitpicks: > it is simply a hole in the plot of an otherwise excellent book that the issue is never brought up. This is not to say that LoTR is in any way a bad book In a small way, it does say that. > When Sam carries Frodo on his back, he is surprised that Frodo is unexpectedly light: "...he had expected to share in the dreadful dragging weight of the accursed Ring. But it was not so." (III, 268). At least wit…
> Isn't Sam basically immune to the ring anyway? He's not necessarily a good canary for this test.
Nope. When he put the Ring on, it gave him what he desired: being a mighty hero with a sharp sword and booming voice.
Frodo bent under the burden because he had to fight his desire constantly. It wasn't the Ring poisoning him, not directly. It was his refusal of putting the Ring on that did.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#177There are a ton of plot holes in the LOTR. Why did Aragorn run off in the dark at Weathertop, when everyone knew they would be besieged? Why does the ring not affect Tom Bombadil? Why does everyone put up with Wormtongue in Rohan? Why don't the orcs in Mordor immediately recognize Frodo and Sam as non-orcs? Why does it matter that Eowyn is a woman not a man? How convenient is it that Boromir showed up just in time fo…
Some of these things are there because they exist in the kind of stories that inspired Tolkien in the first place. Characters appear at just the right time by chance or fate, "can't be killed by man" is taken literally, a simple disguise fools everyone.
This isn't set in our world. It's closer to the world of Beowulf, the Eddas, or the Grimm brothers.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#178Simple answer: The eagles refused to fly towards Mordor while it was emanating Sauron's unnatural aura.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#179Tolkien used the eagles as his standard deus ex machina. - Dwarves + Bilbo + Gandalf stuck in burning trees with enemies around? The eagles to the rescue! - How to wrap up the Battle of the 5 armies when all is lost? The eagles are coming! - How to rescue Gandalf from Sauruman! The eagles! - How to rescue Gandalf from the top of a mountain after an epic battle with a balrog? The eagles! - How to rescue Frodo and Sam…
You are totally right but, because I love Tolkien, I'm down-voting you. It's unfair but it has to be done. Sorry.
This isn't a coherent point...even if it were relevant, which "side" does your love support more?
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somewhat curiously, the "deus ex machina," usually referred to as cheap trick in contemporary commentary on literature/theatre/film, was an expected and appropriate resolution in classical theatre. One might find in Fortinbras Shakespeare's own descending god, although he presides over a funeral rather than a positive resolution (the preferred outcome of virtually all American theatre).
Actually Aristotle criticized using the "machina" (one of several instruments used in Greek theater) to resolve a plot difficulty: http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/poetics.2.2.html (search for "deus ex") I think Aristophanes also made fun of it, but I can't find that reference now.
You might look in The Clouds.