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Introducing Passion Projects

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Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#31

Post by jQueryIsAwesome »

jessedhillon wrote: post #7
jamesmiller5 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women are underrepresented in technology. This event is to help promote the potential as well as accomplishments of women in technology. I fail to see how this is segregation, they make no claim that this series is to be representing everyone, just highlighting women. It is an event focused on women's roles in technology and available to the community.

By the self-centered logic of the OP, even if a minority group has only 0.1% representation, they should have no events targeting specifically them and their causes -- the 99.9% majority should be able to attend, and presumably contribute to the conversation with no ability of the event's organizers to moderate the dialog or direct the focus to the minority's experiences. Anything less than that is segregation. It do…

I see, women are going to share their traumatic experience in tech.

BTW, this discussion is just silly because there are millions of meet Ups in tech filled with only men, but in the other hand meet ups of rape survivors not accepting men would be just evil, men are a minority in that group, it would be like a tech company not accepting any women.

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#32

Post by muan »

As a female developer, I would intuitively feel glad when seeing this kind of events/groups being formed, but thinking about it I am not sure why. I don't even think I feel like going to them for any other reason than, well, I am female and they're also female so I should probably check it out.

After reading the reasons Github wrote, I find it hard to relate. For me picking up coding has nothing to do with seeing some other women do it, but perhaps seeing some human beings do it. And I don't think seeing female developers would inspire me further more than male developers. But I could be completely false and it might be that turns out I don't know what I really feel...

Perhaps it's because I have not yet noticed any serious injustice around where I've been, could be that I just didn't realised what they were or I haven't spend enough time in the tech industry. The most unfair thing in tech I've ever encountered was interviewing at a company where there is no ladies restroom...

Anyhoo. I don't personally know any other female developer and I've been coding since 11, that's 10+ years, I guess that's ought to be wrong. And since there are no samples around me, I don't really know what inspired other female developer to learn how to code. Is there anyone here who cares to share her experience?

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#33

Post by lfborjas »

msoad wrote: post #23

So I started programming (for real) about two years ago. I spent about four months teaching myself coding PHP, JavaScript and CSS. I was able to secure a job after four months. I wasn't really good enough for the position. My wife is doing the same. She is following my path. She have me, I teach her and she is learning much faster. After a year, she is still looking for a volunteer job! Nobody believes she can do any…

I hear you, friend, it's like it's ok for companies to hire us , men, as a "risky bet", I'm not the best engineer but thankfully my employers have all "seen" something in me to have enough faith to give me the chance to learn the job and then become better. Women seem to not get the same kind of good faith: my partner has two engineering degrees and she's by far a better engineer than I (skill-and-attitude-wise), and yet most companies reject her because of her "lack of experience". I know that that is a problem that befalls recent graduates all over the globe, but the fact that I garnered faith from employers more than once and she hasn't, not a single time, is -IMO- telling of a lack of balance.

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#34

Post by mlent »

sp332 wrote: post #28
mlent wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it simply, sexism against men does not exist. You can discriminate against men, but let's be clear: sexism is systematic oppression by those in power on the basis of gender. So...having a series of talks that is for women by women cannot possibly be sexist. You can say it discriminates by not allowing men to be speakers, if you so wish. I can't say I'd find it to interesting to listen to a man tell me what it'…

sexism is systematic oppression by those in power on the basis of gender. I think you're using the wrong word then. Discrimination against men is sexism. Maybe a better word for what you want is hegemony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_theory#Hegemo...

The key element is that women are not able to systematically oppress men for being men, as they do not have the social privilege to do so. You need all the elements in order to produce sexism.

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#35

Post by jt2190 »

jfim wrote: post #26
mlent wrote: post #15

I disagree with everyone saying, "Why create something separate for women? Isn't that further separation?" For the most part, women don't take up much space in the tech industry. Women look at the big names in tech, and they don't really see people who are "like me." This can be intimidating and disheartening. Creating more spaces for women to connect with other women, and share their experiences and encouragement is…

> Also, there's no reason why any women's group should have to admit men to appease the "I promise we're not sexist against men" line of reasoning. I doubt it would go very well if someone hosted a men-only event and said "I promise we're not sexist against women." I don't think anyone is against having women-focused groups any more than having other interest-based groups. Women exclusive groups, though, do send a ve…

  > Women exclusive groups, though, do send a very 
  > conflicting message that it's okay to exclude a gender.
Please clarify... You're saying that the currently enfranchised group (males) will get further encouragement for their exclusionary behaviors because the disenfranchised group (women) exclude males from some of their activities? Does't this completely ignore the current power imbalance between the two groups?

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#36

Post by sp332 »

mlent wrote: post #34
sp332 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sexism is systematic oppression by those in power on the basis of gender. I think you're using the wrong word then. Discrimination against men is sexism. Maybe a better word for what you want is hegemony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dominance_theory#Hegemo...

The key element is that women are not able to systematically oppress men for being men, as they do not have the social privilege to do so. You need all the elements in order to produce sexism.

A single individual event or person can be sexist. I understand the idea you are describing. That idea is not what the word "sexism" refers to. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sexism

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#37

Post by querulous »

recuter wrote: post #12
AlexandrB wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would really need to be done is look properly into why there is a disproportionate number of men versus women who go into technology, rather than introduce yet more segregation. This isn't some big mystery. At least one reason that women don't enter technology fields is a lack of female role-models. Another is societal pressure that dictates that women are bad at technology. Technology conferences focusing on…

What role models did Grace Hopper have? And I can only speak for myself but I was never drawn to 'technology' out of having famous neckbeards or Jobs or Gates and so forth as role models. You have to ask why women are more under represented in this particular field than others which used to be just as male dominated in the past. But people don't like to think about such deep large hairy societal problems. None of thi…

Ada Lovelace

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#38

Post by mark_l_watson »

Very cool!

Not too far off topic: I worked for a good tech company for most of the years between 1973 and 1996. The only major negative thing about the company was a 'glass ceiling' for women engineers (we did have some very high profile women on our board of directors though). I found that situation embarrassing.

So, yes, special events featuring women engineers are a good thing.

BTW, my granddaughter can program fairly well using the Scratch game platform :-)

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#39

Post by mlent »

Zikes wrote: post #27
mlent wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it simply, sexism against men does not exist. You can discriminate against men, but let's be clear: sexism is systematic oppression by those in power on the basis of gender. So...having a series of talks that is for women by women cannot possibly be sexist. You can say it discriminates by not allowing men to be speakers, if you so wish. I can't say I'd find it to interesting to listen to a man tell me what it'…

I must vehemently disagree with your argument that discrimination against men on the basis of gender is not sexism, and I take offense at the notion that it is "nonsense", however that is only a pedantic tangent in the context of this discussion. To avoid further pedantry, going forward I will simply refer to it as discrimination. Whatever your definition of that word, discrimination of any sort is morally and ethica…

Why is it necessarily hostile towards men to have a series of talks oriented towards women in tech? I don't imagine they're going to spend their time talking about how terrible men are, how we should undermine them at every turn, and do our best to tip the scales of systemic oppression in their favor. It seems to me to be about inspiration and encouragement, which can be a benefit to anyone, regardless of gender.

It is about creating an integrated community. But women need to come together and find the collective voice that most individuals currently do not possess. Sometimes the presence or involvement of men can be detrimental to that progress. Not all men, not all the time, but sometimes. So why bring up the "what about men?" argument when this is just not about men?

I am sorry you disagree with my definition of sexism. To my knowledge, that is an accepted academic definition.

Re: Introducing Passion Projects

#40

Post by pablasso »

msoad wrote: post #23

So I started programming (for real) about two years ago. I spent about four months teaching myself coding PHP, JavaScript and CSS. I was able to secure a job after four months. I wasn't really good enough for the position. My wife is doing the same. She is following my path. She have me, I teach her and she is learning much faster. After a year, she is still looking for a volunteer job! Nobody believes she can do any…

She should just release whatever she creates why learning. Stereotypes are no longer valid if you have a proof of your skills in Github.
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