[deleted]
Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
81–90 of 213 posts
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#82Another big hole is that best Ringbearer would be a Dwarf not Halfling. Dwarfs take decades to be affected and they never turn into specters and enter the spirit realm. So the best combo would be eagles carrying Gimli with the ring, which he would have no trouble throwing into the volcano.
In my mind I thought that any direct approach (flying eagles) would get spotted by Sauron instantly and he could bring his power to bear on them directly
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#83Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.
Did you read the whole article?
"After Frodo and Sam entered Mordor thru Cirith Ungol, Sauron had fully ten days to contemplate the purpose of their mission into Mordor, and did not realize that their plan was to destroy the Ring until the last moment. Given that the Mouth of Sauron refers to the intruders as "spies", Sauron's most likely thought would be that the eagles are merely flying over his realm for reconnaisance purposes. Thus, even if Sauron notices the eagles, his response would not necessarily be an appropriate one to prevent the Ring from being destroyed (such as having the Nazgûl fly directly to Mt. Doom to intercept the eagles)."
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#84Crows. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Crebain If crows can be sent into the world to hunt for the ringbearer they can certainly patrol the skies around Mordor. Crows spy the eagles entering Mordor and forces are dispatched to counter them.
It's interesting that almost every point in the other replies is already explained in the article except yours. I'm surprised the crows didn't spot Frodo as he approached Mordor. It's reasonable to assume they were covering more ground away from Mordor already though.
Dressed as orcs they probably blend in. If you're a crow patrolling the skies around Mordor, seeing a few extra (small) orc's wandering around on the ground probably isn't anything unusual or even your job to worry about. After all the entire place is ringed with natural defenses with orc's patrolling all the entries that do exist.
As a Crow your job is to watch the skies and make sure nothing untoward comes in that way.
It seems incredibly unlikely to me that Sauron is going to protect the borders of Mordor so well and then ignore the sky, especially when he has the perfect agents, the Crows, for the job.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
An older brother of mine did a master's thesis on Tolkien. One thing he studied in particular is the role that Tolkien's wartime experiences had on his portrayal in the Lord of the Rings. On air power, he explained to me that in WW I airplanes had a great psychological impact, but little practical ones. You see this very clearly in the portrayal of the Nazgul in battle. Where ever you see the Nazgul go, there is grea…
>I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, >and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough >to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or >feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and >experience of readers. I think that many confuse >applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the >freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed >domination of the author. -…
That's as may be, but he was still a product of his environment. Whether there was an intended link or no, the influences of his past experiences cannot be easily dismissed, even if they were not consciously intended.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
An older brother of mine did a master's thesis on Tolkien. One thing he studied in particular is the role that Tolkien's wartime experiences had on his portrayal in the Lord of the Rings. On air power, he explained to me that in WW I airplanes had a great psychological impact, but little practical ones. You see this very clearly in the portrayal of the Nazgul in battle. Where ever you see the Nazgul go, there is grea…
"in WW I airplanes could only be used during the day" Night fighters were used during WW1 by the UK to defend against Zeppelin and Gotha heavy bomber attacks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_fighter
Wow, you're right.
I threw that in because I knew that it wasn't until 1929 that Doolittle demonstrated instrument flying, that allowed safe flight in the dark, fog, etc.
But I guess that even at night, if conditions were right, you could fly a plane. And people did during WW I. Though the descriptions in http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/airplane... of the practical problems in landing when you didn't know how close the field was are somewhat harrowing.
Live and learn! Thanks.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#87Oh wow! That's a lot of reasoning for making a story boring.This is far from the truly interesting analysis you can make about LotR. [spoiler alert just in case] The one I like the most is the topic of why Frodo fails. When Frodo reaches Mt Doom he finally loses himself to the power of the ring and proclaims himself its master. This is both a product of his character growth and his proximity to Sauron. In the words o…
And surely Frodo's failure implies also that the eagle plan could not have worked: it did not include Gollum
I imagine that if the Precious had been aloft on board an eagle, then somehow Gollum would have made his way up there!
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#88Another big hole is that best Ringbearer would be a Dwarf not Halfling. Dwarfs take decades to be affected and they never turn into specters and enter the spirit realm. So the best combo would be eagles carrying Gimli with the ring, which he would have no trouble throwing into the volcano. In my mind I thought that any direct approach (flying eagles) would get spotted by Sauron instantly and he could bring his power…
The strength of hobbits is their innocence, simpleness, and their lack of desire for power. Only a halfling could carry the ring. Dwarves on the other hand are known for hoarding treasures!
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#89I think the fact that this is still a debate is an indication of how Tolkien's works have endured. A minor bug in a program that few people use will go unnoticed possibly forever, but the same minor bug in a popular program will be discussed on messageboards ad nauseum.
In the same way, the fact that we're even having this debate is a testament to the staying power of these tales and this world he has created.
This is why, as a Tolkien fan, I don't get offended at all by this essay. I'm just happy to hear people, in the year two thousand and thirteen, debating this matter still.
Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)
#90One merely has to refer to RFC 1149[1] to determine why this solution is obviously unacceptable:
"Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service."
"...only guarantees best effort delivery, loss of a carrier can be tolerated."
"...storms can cause data loss."
"Audit trails are automatically generated, and can often be found on logs and cable trays."
And probably most important:
"Security is not generally a problem in normal operation, but special measures must be taken (such as data encryption) when avian carriers are used in a tactical environment."
The only encryption method available is for the bearer to wear the ring, and Sauron has already cracked the key.
Avian carriers are only appropriate when it is feasible to have "persistent delivery retry, until the carrier drops." They're ruled out for this mission simply because there are no second chances.