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Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

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Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#42

Post by diminoten »

Aardwolf wrote: post #5

No, because, the eagles would have been possessed by the ring.

I think this is the most valid response, as it doesn't even require that the head eagle necessarily be so easily corruptible. The whole plan could have been ruled out by Gandalf simply because he was worried the head eagle might be tempted by the ring.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#43

Post by orourkek »

zeteo wrote: post #38

As the article points out, it's a question of stealth versus speed, but speed is not necessarily preferable. The powers of Sauron, especially deep within his own domain, are indeed unknown. With even an hour to react, it is quite possible he would be able to conjure up something that would end up in the whole endeavor delivering the ring to him, instead of destroying it. On the other hand, the stealthiness of hobbits…

I agree, but the author's note about the Council of Elrond is extremely convincing. If Tolkien wanted to strike this plan as a possibility, he could easily have added 1-2 lines into the Council talks where they discuss (and refute) every plan they can think of. In the end there's nothing concrete in Tolkien's work that refutes the 'eagle plan' as viable. Suggesting fan-fiction and/or 'the unknown' as proof that it's not possible isn't in the spirit of the article, per this section:

> My question is not what fan-fiction we can add to the story to rule out the "eagles" plan; my question is what Tolkien has written which rules it out.

That being said, your thoughts about the Hobbits' stealthiness is agreeable, but again it's more of a matter of what can be proven by excerpts from the books, not what can be guessed/assumed.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#45

Post by rush340 »

danielweber wrote: post #39
Aardwolf wrote: post #5

No, because, the eagles would have been possessed by the ring.

What if you don't tell the eagles on the mission what's up? Even if corruptible, it would take at least some time for them to figure out what's going on and which of the hobbitses they are carrying has the ring.

The Eagles seem very picky about when they help and who they're helping. I highly doubt they would do such a deed without Gandalf letting them in on the full story.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#46

Post by Aardwolf »

covingkj wrote: post #41
Aardwolf wrote: post #5

No, because, the eagles would have been possessed by the ring.

Care to elaborate? That possibility is discussed in the article, why do you think OP is wrong?

Ok, I'm sorry, you got me, I cannot give an as detailed analysis as the article's author. I just didn't want the books to become irrelevant by making the journey pointless :'(

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#47

Post by Tloewald »

I have for many years speculated that Gandalf's plan could have been to get everyone to Gondor and allow Sauron to besiege the combined forces of "the west" and then fly the ring to mount doom at the last moment. If this had been Gandalf's plan from the start, and if there were some hint of this in the book, then the rescue from mount doom would not seem like such an egregious plot device.

As it is, the story makes no sense unless one assumes that Gandalf simply figured all this out and said nothing (after all Frodo's disappearance after Boromir's lapse rendered the plan obsolete, and Gandalf wasn't there anyway). Again, if such a plan existed, there's no evidence Gandalf confided it to Aragorn. Indeed, a simple hurried exchange between Gandalf and Aragorn before Gandalf confronts the balrog could have foreshadowed the eagles and solved LOTR's biggest plot hole.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#48

Post by Finster »

A flight of Eagles over the Ered Lithui would be pretty dang obvious to Sauron's forces. I imagine the Nazgul with their flying beasts could do some serious damage, and I would think that would put the ring at great risk of falling into the hands of the Nazgul.

Also, the Eagles didn't fly into Mordor until after the Ring had been destroyed, which means the Nazgul wouldn't have been a factor anymore.

The article's conjecture that Eagles could fly undetected over the Ered Lithui grossly underestimates the effectiveness of even a moderately skilled wilderness scout, which I must assume Sauron would have many.

I'm not sure if Tolkien had all this in mind, but considering that Tolkien fought in WWI, which was the first war where air power started to come into its own, I wouldn't be surprised if he took some of this into account.

Re: Could the eagles have flown Frodo into Mordor? (2000)

#49

Post by zeteo »

orourkek wrote: post #43
zeteo wrote: post #38

As the article points out, it's a question of stealth versus speed, but speed is not necessarily preferable. The powers of Sauron, especially deep within his own domain, are indeed unknown. With even an hour to react, it is quite possible he would be able to conjure up something that would end up in the whole endeavor delivering the ring to him, instead of destroying it. On the other hand, the stealthiness of hobbits…

I agree, but the author's note about the Council of Elrond is extremely convincing. If Tolkien wanted to strike this plan as a possibility, he could easily have added 1-2 lines into the Council talks where they discuss (and refute) every plan they can think of. In the end there's nothing concrete in Tolkien's work that refutes the 'eagle plan' as viable. Suggesting fan-fiction and/or 'the unknown' as proof that it's…

I would venture that there were many possible alternate decisions at various points in the plot, and discussing all of them thoroughly was not necessarily a literary enhancement. The "eagles plan" itself is fan fiction, and refusing to accept more "fan fiction" in response to it is a bit disingenuous.
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