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Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

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Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#11

Post by MatthewPhillips »

campnic wrote: post #3
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #2

I find this article slightly odd. It sounds to me like the author got a raw deal. I've been in this situation before early my career. The old "we want to promote you but can't give you much more money, here's a bunch of vacation days instead". Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job. > She…

Its not wrong for you to approach everything so skeptically, but I think you have to see it from the authors perspective: 1. He clearly has an altruistic bent (he'd just returned from the Peace Corp. in Kenya) 2. He liked his position for its flexibility and variety as noted throughout the article. I think the point of the article is that many people approach salary negotiations as an optimization of just salary. But…

I don't disagree with that. The author flipped a bad situation and found a way to get out. That's exactly what you should do in that situation, rather than standing your ground to make a point.

Perhaps where I disagree with you (and others who have responded to me) is in how important it is to keep good employees. If the author really is worth more than the more senior staff, the company has failed itself tremendously by losing him. If he is worth more than the others today, what will he be worth in the future (what is his growth potential). Putting up roadblocks for growth in your employees has to be one of the worst things HR can do.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#12

Post by jtbigwoo »

I think many successful people and organizations take a similar approach all around.

Is your baseball team underfunded compared to others? Use the lowered expectations to test theories and find market innefficiencies.

Are customers are worried that our company is too small? We'll give you the email address of the CEO if you have a problem.

Don't have any money for raises? Offer employees special deals that no larger employer would even consider (like the wave height deal in the story).

Take the weakest part of you and beat the bastards with it.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#13

Post by Evbn »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #11
campnic wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not wrong for you to approach everything so skeptically, but I think you have to see it from the authors perspective: 1. He clearly has an altruistic bent (he'd just returned from the Peace Corp. in Kenya) 2. He liked his position for its flexibility and variety as noted throughout the article. I think the point of the article is that many people approach salary negotiations as an optimization of just salary. But…

I don't disagree with that. The author flipped a bad situation and found a way to get out. That's exactly what you should do in that situation, rather than standing your ground to make a point. Perhaps where I disagree with you (and others who have responded to me) is in how important it is to keep good employees. If the author really is worth more than the more senior staff, the company has failed itself tremendousl…

You may be reading a lot of a extra meaning into a generic negotiating tactic / ego stroke comment from a boss.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#14

Post by blhack »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #2

I find this article slightly odd. It sounds to me like the author got a raw deal. I've been in this situation before early my career. The old "we want to promote you but can't give you much more money, here's a bunch of vacation days instead". Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job. > She…

>Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job.

I bet literally nobody on hacker news has a side project that they wish they had time for.

Nope. Nuh uh.

/s

The stuff I'm pushing for at my company is being allowed to remote-work, and more time off. Not because I want to get away from anything, but because it will allow me to focus better on the projects I'm doing for them, and also have more time for the projects I'm doing for me.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#15

Post by engtech »

"Weakness is strength. Strength is weakness."

Being a small flexible company means they can't compete on money, but they can compete on flexibility and increasing quality of life.

I think that's all any employee wants from a job -- a good quality of life. Money is probably the worst way of quantifying if they employee is already middle class.

It's amazing even how "here's a week to fix that low priority problem that bugs the shit out of you" would go to improve morale.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#16

Post by johndavidback »

engtech wrote: post #15

"Weakness is strength. Strength is weakness." Being a small flexible company means they can't compete on money, but they can compete on flexibility and increasing quality of life. I think that's all any employee wants from a job -- a good quality of life. Money is probably the worst way of quantifying if they employee is already middle class. It's amazing even how "here's a week to fix that low priority problem that…

It's also amazing how working for a large company starts to become less fulfilling when they can afford to pay you instead of really rewarding you in a way that is meaningful. Sometimes money really can't buy happiness.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#17

Post by nicholassmith »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #10
richeyrw wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that she could have fired some other people and given this guy their money? Because he was working so hard that he could replace them? If not where does she get the money? You can talk about what you deserve to get paid all day long, but if the money isn't there, you have to take whatever money is there, or quit. And you keep talking about the company. It was a non-profit radio station in a tiny market…

It didn't sound like was a budget problem - it sounded like the issue was that more senior people would be butthurt that someone who hadn't been there as long as making more money.

Well, in the article it does state she ended up showing him the financials and they genuinely couldn't afford anything over that extra $2k.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#18

Post by afterburner »

dwiel wrote: post #6
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #2

I find this article slightly odd. It sounds to me like the author got a raw deal. I've been in this situation before early my career. The old "we want to promote you but can't give you much more money, here's a bunch of vacation days instead". Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job. > She…

To some people money is the ultimate proxy for happiness, for some it is not, and of course there is a spectrum. It sounds like money is a better proxy for happiness for you then it is for the author. I actually had a discussion with my employer the other day about how next time he considered a raise, I would actually prefer more vacation time, or a shorter work week. I enjoy the stability of a monthly paycheck, and…

She could barely pay for gas though... that's not enough money.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#19

Post by MrMember »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #2

I find this article slightly odd. It sounds to me like the author got a raw deal. I've been in this situation before early my career. The old "we want to promote you but can't give you much more money, here's a bunch of vacation days instead". Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job. > She…

>Guess what you do with vacation days when you have no money. Sit at home and be bitter about the fact that you can't afford to go any where. And you look for another job.

Not everybody treats a 'vacation' the same way. For someone with a family that could be extra time with the kids. For my dad it would mean extra time in the garden and doing yard work. For me it would probably mean sitting at home playing video games. People aren't obligated to spend money traveling somewhere on their vacation time.

Re: Salary Negotiations: What is Possible When There's no More Money

#20

Post by spartango »

I found this article awesome, but not only for showcasing the creative tools a leader can might under tight resource constraints:

Beyond her creativity, Belinda shows great empathy for the author, and at the same time draws on the author's own empathy. This is both powerful and gratifying; at the end of the negotiation, each side feels that the other has his best interest in mind and truly cares about them. This arrangement is not a one-time compromise or an appeasement deal, and it certainly doesn't feel that way. It's a relationship that continues to grow.

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