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EmberJS Confuses Me

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Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#81

Post by rxcfc »

stevewilhelm wrote: post #78

> Ember is explicitly not about "desktop apps". That's actually why Ember broke off from Sproutcore. Ember is very opinionatedly focused on building web applications that are native to the web and stick to web conventions. This may be the issue. I think most of us never really wanted to build web applications, but we were forced to do so due to browser and framework limitations. We really just wanted to build the bes…

Are you implying that Ember doesn't deliver on this desire to build desktop class applications in the browser? If so, can you explain where it falls short?

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#82

Post by rxcfc »

acoleman616 wrote: post #33
robconery wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

{{#each controller}} {{name}} {{/each}} How is the controller not the data as far as the View is concerned?

As mentioned above, the proxied model data is actually stored in a controller's "content" field. So that snippet is actually just shorthand for {{#each controller.content}} {{/each}}

It's not quite a shorthand as the controller can have properties of its own as well. However, the general understanding is correct, the controller proxies to the content. The controller is not the data, but it acts like it.

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#83

Post by sergiosgc »

tree_of_item wrote: post #41

I think the problem is MVC itself is a confused mess. It means whatever each person wants it to mean, since it's too easy to make up a bunch of reasonable sounding argumentation for whatever you want to do if you use the words model, view, and controller a lot.

That, coupled with the fact that MVC (the classic, desktop MVC) seems shoehorned in webapps, makes me weary when frameworks tout their MVCness before stating their distinctive features.

BTW, I'm much more adept of removing the controller and going to a tightly coupled stack of view-model with the use of the observer pattern where needed. Controllers remind me of that extra indirection that seems useful in design but is never really used and is thus just unnecessary complexity.

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#84

Post by bengillies »

rxcfc wrote: post #79
bengillies wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without meaning to offend, I'm afraid I have to take issue with your points about Ember-Data. Yes it's optional, and yes you can use jQuery.ajax or whatever, but in reality, it's not quite that simple. The official guides in Ember default to assuming you're using Ember-Data (though they do at least mention it explicitly). This despite Ember-Data being far from production ready (as stated on the Github page) and far t…

Ember is built to work with Ember Data out of the box, but it's trivial to make your own methods that fit with the conventions. I assume you're referring to the default `find` support in the router. All that Ember does is attempt to infer a class name and call `find(id)` on it if the `find` method exists. You can implement this method however you want, or even change your routes to call an entirely different method.…

I totally get that it's different to what's in other frameworks (the router is similarly different), it's just that, for the most part, on the surface, it pretty much serves the same purpose (other than some relationship stuff that half works). That is, it's the same the same part of the framework, just with extra features. Oh, and with a whole load of undocumented coventions in it.

Btw, is there a diagram or something that shows how it's put together internally (I'm pretty comfortable with how to use it from an API perspective, but find myself having to dive into the source code fairly regularly)?

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#86

Post by rxcfc »

bengillies wrote: post #84
rxcfc wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ember is built to work with Ember Data out of the box, but it's trivial to make your own methods that fit with the conventions. I assume you're referring to the default `find` support in the router. All that Ember does is attempt to infer a class name and call `find(id)` on it if the `find` method exists. You can implement this method however you want, or even change your routes to call an entirely different method.…

I totally get that it's different to what's in other frameworks (the router is similarly different), it's just that, for the most part, on the surface, it pretty much serves the same purpose (other than some relationship stuff that half works). That is, it's the same the same part of the framework, just with extra features. Oh, and with a whole load of undocumented coventions in it. Btw, is there a diagram or somethi…

Unfortunately, no such diagram exists though it would certainly be useful. The lack of documentation is tied a lot to the instability of the Ember Data API, both of which are reasons why it hasn't had a formal release yet.

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#88

Post by tmzt »

tonycoco wrote: post #61

Curious for yourself? Try following my simple starter app tutorial of Rails + Ember.js here: http://www.devmynd.com/blog/2013-3-rails-ember-js Though, I understand the pain of coming from a server-side MVC architecture, I found it refreshing that Ember.js takes the "desktop" MVC approach. Our web apps are now living on the client, acting like desktop apps. Most people struggle with this reverse at first, but can conc…

While there is quite a deal of information on integrating ember-data with rails, there is much less on integrating it with other server-side MVC/REST frameworks.

This means that using it with another framework often means modifying that interaction pattern to be more like how rails views ajax, complete with the root objects ({"model":{}}).

This may more accurately apply to the REST driver in ember-data, but that is quite tightly coupled with the rest of it.

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#89

Post by ffreire »

tonycoco wrote: post #61

Curious for yourself? Try following my simple starter app tutorial of Rails + Ember.js here: http://www.devmynd.com/blog/2013-3-rails-ember-js Though, I understand the pain of coming from a server-side MVC architecture, I found it refreshing that Ember.js takes the "desktop" MVC approach. Our web apps are now living on the client, acting like desktop apps. Most people struggle with this reverse at first, but can conc…

There seems to be some very positive buzz around this screencast mentioned both in the OP's blog and around HN in general: https://peepcode.com/products/emberjs . I found it particularly instructive but found that it only scratched the surface of this new framework. At least, it scratched enough off the top that I feel comfortable rooting through source and API documentation to figure out the rest. YMMV, of course.

Re: EmberJS Confuses Me

#90

Post by gavanwoolery »

I have not used Ember, but you mention MVC, which immediately brings to mind Sencha. I have used Sencha a lot, and although I think it is mostly great, I do not like how they try to pidgeon-hole you into the MVC methodology, which just does not make sense in many contexts.
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