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China bans Youtube

reuters.com

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Re: China bans Youtube

#31

Post by dinkumthinkum »

marksutherland wrote: post #9
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to be kidding. Stifling another outlet for free speech is just to get a few more widgets produced per day right? Of course it has nothing to do with political fear, even though every other instance of such an action did. Right, you can't be serious.

It can't be both? The percieved benefits of protectionism, combined with the squelching of unsavoury opinions and other content must be very appealing.

I'm not sure that applies here. Protectionism is not about keeping people from goofing off at work.

Re: China bans Youtube

#33

Post by netsp »

phugoid wrote: post #20

The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. I have witnessed the same thing here in the UAE - even from young Western-educated locals. I suppose that if you grow up in a society where heavy-handed censorship is widespread in all media and even conversation, you'd accept it as normal and perhaps necessary. Self-censorship is even more effective and…

No Censorship, like like no economic intervention, no prohibitions etc. are not intuitive concepts.

Censorship is not bad just because it's bad (like murder or assault). It doesn't usually hurt anyone directly. In fact it's trying to help. If heroin, fascism, homosexuality or anorexia are bad, why not work to stop them? To oppose censorship, you need to accept that in order to censor bad things, you need to have institutions that decide what is bad (don't we already have those?) and a means of blocking them. This will lead to bad things like censoring good things. There is no way around that, just like outrunning light. That's a pretty flimsy argument to make. If it hasn't been drilled into you, you probably won't accept it.

This isn't something that just people in the UAE or China will not 'get.' Australians today will not be convinced that banning pedophilia sites is a bad idea.

Try separating a debate about the legalization of drugs from a discussion about how harmful it is to take drugs.

Re: China bans Youtube

#34

Post by est »

phugoid wrote: post #20

The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. I have witnessed the same thing here in the UAE - even from young Western-educated locals. I suppose that if you grow up in a society where heavy-handed censorship is widespread in all media and even conversation, you'd accept it as normal and perhaps necessary. Self-censorship is even more effective and…

> The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship.

Wait, where did you get that?

Re: China bans Youtube

#35

Post by jhancock »

est wrote: post #34
phugoid wrote: post #20

The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. I have witnessed the same thing here in the UAE - even from young Western-educated locals. I suppose that if you grow up in a society where heavy-handed censorship is widespread in all media and even conversation, you'd accept it as normal and perhaps necessary. Self-censorship is even more effective and…

> The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. Wait, where did you get that?

they are in favor of the same things other country's peoples are in favor of blocking: porn, etc.

trouble is once you have a "great firewall" in place, it gets used to block whatever is convenient with no oversight.

Re: China bans Youtube

#36

Post by jhancock »

Retric wrote: post #6
jballanc wrote: post #4

This article is inaccurate. It makes it seem as if YouTube is no longer blocked in Turkey when, last I checked, it still is...

Actuality, they don't say it works in Turkey only that: YouTube, which has country-specific sites in 23 countries, has in the past been blocked in certain countries, including Turkey which might suggest it currently works but does not say so. Anyway, while I don't think it's an issue with Turkey I expect China blocking YouTube might become a free trade issue.

Its not going to become a free trade issue. Not as long as the U.S. needs China to keep buying treasury notes.

Pay attention to want _isn't_ being said in the U.S. press about China. This will point you to the laundry list of things China is telling the U.S. to keep its hands off if it wants China to keep buying US$ debt.

Re: China bans Youtube

#37

Post by Caligula »

chiffonade wrote: post #19
bk wrote: post #11

This is hardly big news. Sites rotate in and out of being blocked all the time. wikipedia, wordpress.com, news.bbc.co.uk, etc. have all been blocked at one point or another. The only mainstream site that's been consistently blocked is bbc news. Interestingly, no US news outlets are blocked. It always makes me wonder why. Also, the major cities tend to have more liberal access policies than more remote areas.

> It always makes me wonder why. This doesn't make me wonder at all. The US and China were the two biggest allies in World War 2, became economically unified during the cold war to defeat the Soviet Union (remember the Soviet Union?), and now are the two biggest economic powers in the world. Don't look at official GDP figures, they're meaningless. Look at influence, manufacturing/logistical and financial power center…

I have to disagree with some of what you said.

It was the USSR and the US who were the biggest allies in WW2. China was a non factor. And after WW2, the US opposed Mao by supporting the losing side. The USSR supported Mao's revolution. Trade began between China and the US in the 70's but it was not part of a plan to defeat the soviet union. It only really picked up at the end of the cold war.

I don't think Japan is being usurped. If and when the re-unification happens, it will be chaos. South Korea just hopes it does not bankrupt them. Having a new source of inexpensive labor will not help Korea surpass Japan. China is close by and there is still plenty of inexpensive labor to be had there.

Also, its not like just Japan uses Chinese manufacturing. The whole world does including the US. Japans engineering head-start was not given to them by the Marshall plan(which was mostly directed at europe). They earned it starting in the 50's.

Re: China bans Youtube

#38

Post by chiffonade »

Caligula wrote: post #37
chiffonade wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always makes me wonder why. This doesn't make me wonder at all. The US and China were the two biggest allies in World War 2, became economically unified during the cold war to defeat the Soviet Union (remember the Soviet Union?), and now are the two biggest economic powers in the world. Don't look at official GDP figures, they're meaningless. Look at influence, manufacturing/logistical and financial power center…

I have to disagree with some of what you said. It was the USSR and the US who were the biggest allies in WW2. China was a non factor. And after WW2, the US opposed Mao by supporting the losing side. The USSR supported Mao's revolution. Trade began between China and the US in the 70's but it was not part of a plan to defeat the soviet union. It only really picked up at the end of the cold war. I don't think Japan is b…

Were there American airbases in Russia, or China?

Re: China bans Youtube

#39

Post by marksutherland »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #31
marksutherland wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be both? The percieved benefits of protectionism, combined with the squelching of unsavoury opinions and other content must be very appealing.

I'm not sure that applies here. Protectionism is not about keeping people from goofing off at work.

doh, I missed the root comment (threading isn't very obvious in links).

Re: China bans Youtube

#40

Post by phugoid »

est wrote: post #34
phugoid wrote: post #20

The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. I have witnessed the same thing here in the UAE - even from young Western-educated locals. I suppose that if you grow up in a society where heavy-handed censorship is widespread in all media and even conversation, you'd accept it as normal and perhaps necessary. Self-censorship is even more effective and…

> The hard thing to bend my mind around is the fact that many people in China are in favour of Internet censorship. Wait, where did you get that?

A number of articles I've read, but sorry I haven't recorded any specific links.

I've also read about some very patriotic Chinese surfers that go around flaming anything that doesn't conform to the Party line. Same happens here in UAE.

From several indicators like this, I have assumed there's quite a bit of similarity between the two situations. The two national cultures are very different, but they both actively punish those who publicly differs from central authority, they both try to censor all media.

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