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Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

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Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#271

Would it be possible to make JS lint available in Firebug? Preferably in such a way that all scripts included from a currently opened site are automatically linted? At the moment I go to www.jslint.com to lint scripts, which is such a PITA.

I would recommend running jslint or jshint locally on your machine instead of pasting it into the website.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#272
post #73

This is a big request: Improve "design in the browser" capabilities. i.e. pushing CSS/HTML and maybe JS changes made in Dev Tools back to the source files without manual shenanigans in the middle. I probably waste more time copying CSS / HTML tweak diffs from the browser back into the related source files than anything else with in browser dev tools. Due to the nature of 'losing changes' if I happen to hit refresh or…

I'm the author of http://tin.cr , it tries to solve this exact problem for Chrome Devtools. (someone else mentioned this in this thread). I've spent some time thinking about the problem. In an ideal world a standardized protocol to push changes to a server would be awesome. I think it's unrealistic though to expect widespread adoption especially for existing frameworks to add code just for doing this. For example, ha…

Neat. Out of interest, how does Tincr compare to LiveReload or CodeKit?

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#274

I have to be honest - I find the developer tools a pain: They aren't even close to replacing Firebug, yet they're more obtrusive. So I can't stop using Firebug, and I can't remove the unwanted built-in menu options. So for me personally, what I'd really like to see is either one of: - Match Firebug feature for feature - Allow for the dev tools to be completely removed from the interface Sorry, but it really does come…

I couldn't agree with this more. I work primarily in Chrome and find it very frustrating nowadays when I have to switch to Firefox to debug. Back in the days when Firebug was the only show in town, I loved working in Firefox. Dev Tools gets in the way.

I appreciate the flashy experiments like Firefox Command Line but there's little chance of them entering into my everyday workflow unless I have the chance to learn them properly. I won't get the chance to learn them properly until I reach for Firefox as my main development browser.

On another note: The Chrome Network panel is invaluable to me and streets ahead of the Firebug Net panel. I find it hard to explain why I prefer it as the features are fairly similar, but the experience is much better. Maybe it's about the layout and clarity vs. density of information.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#275

Webkit dev tools timeline in frame mode is bar none the most useful tool for tracking down performance issues. Looks like it's on your roadmap but it's far, far more useful in tracking down actual perf issues in large codebases than any other tool in any developer tools toolbox because it's cross-cutting and bottlenecks tend to be a combination of factors and the frame-sizing lets you find what's on the critical path…

I think a general pattern is that the console should be smarter about the specific stuff people do in a console, in the browser. Every kind of DOM node should have specific representations appropriate for that DOM node, not just what falls out of some generic printer. There are array-like objects that get printed out funnily because they aren't real arrays – but {0: x, 1: y} is no more clear about the actual nature of the object than [x, y].

Why people won't code vendor prefixes into CSS tools I don't know; the obvious thing is for Firefox to ignore everything but "-moz-*" – and even then, to warn selectively (i.e., if there are old versions of Firefox that require a prefix, even if the new version doesn't, don't warn about it). Or hell, crowdsource the whole thing, when you encounter something invalid fall back on a community edited document about what is valid in other browsers, or represents a common and acceptable CSS hack. There's often good information in the CSS warnings, but there's too much useless information to find it. I'm annoyed things like LESS and SASS don't treat vendor prefixes specially either.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#276
Better unit testing support please. Currently marrionette js support is minimal, selenium/webdriver is too heavy weight. I realize that there is a lot of legacy mochitest code. Having an easily accessible framework that one can integrate with nodejs to do BDD/TDD is extremely useful for writing guality code.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#277
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the author of http://tin.cr , it tries to solve this exact problem for Chrome Devtools. (someone else mentioned this in this thread). I've spent some time thinking about the problem. In an ideal world a standardized protocol to push changes to a server would be awesome. I think it's unrealistic though to expect widespread adoption especially for existing frameworks to add code just for doing this. For example, ha…

Neat. Out of interest, how does Tincr compare to LiveReload or CodeKit?

At the moment, it has two big drawbacks compared to those two

* The live reloading doesn't support full refreshes. You can only do live updating inside the running page. Chrome has built-in support for this. Works awesome for css. JavaScript support is a little flaky. * It doesn't support re-compiling Sass, LESS, CoffeeScript, etc. on a file change.

I'm actively working on fixing both problems.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#278
post #73

This is a big request: Improve "design in the browser" capabilities. i.e. pushing CSS/HTML and maybe JS changes made in Dev Tools back to the source files without manual shenanigans in the middle. I probably waste more time copying CSS / HTML tweak diffs from the browser back into the related source files than anything else with in browser dev tools. Due to the nature of 'losing changes' if I happen to hit refresh or…

If a browser supported PUTting the modified resource back up to the server, we'd be off to a good start. Server-side frameworks could then add functionality to split the modified resource back into the files that created it.

A lot of these ideas could be supported via a proxy system. Something like charles http://www.charlesproxy.com/ on steroids. If you wanted to edit yahoo.com , you would checkout your local repo, have charles point to the local repo, and then your on the fly css/js fixes would go to your local repo. Yahoo's server wouldn't have to support it.

Re: Ask HN: Webdevs, designers: what devtools should we (Mozilla) build in Firefox?

#279
Add better support for keyboard shortcuts. I use firefox every day and I still prefer it to chrome because it has better keyboard shortcuts, but they could be better still.

1. I can't disable Ctrl-P/Cmd-P that maps to print screen. I use emacs and this conflicts with many shortcuts that I am used to using. The print dialog takes a full second to display. I haven't had a printer in 8 years.

2. Firefox gives webpages more extensive key capture capability then chrome. Some pages take away the ability to press Ctrl-L to get to the firebug console, this requires me to use a mouse. It's slow.

3. I don't know how to setup a key mapping to change the zoom style.

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