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The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

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Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#11

Post by Alex3917 »

Rod wrote: post #3

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that th…

"Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that there MIGHT be a possibility that global warming is not caused by humans."

I'm calling your BS. There are very few if any people who believe that it is impossible that global warming is not caused by man. I don't think I've ever heard that view expressed in the media, even once.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#12

Post by ruby_roo »

I personally feel that it is better to err on the side of caution in regards to global warming. I say "feel" because I'm just not smart enough to navigate fact from fiction on this issue anymore. There's going to be extremes on both sides, but I don't see what we have to gain by not taking better care of our planet.

Even if global warming is only partially manmade, shouldn't we do what we can to minimize the effect? And plain old pollution is a visible problem regardless of warming effects; it's now in our food and water supply.

That is how I see this issue. Hope that is a reasonable approach considering all the FUD out there. I don't see how society is harmed by erring on the side of caution on this one.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#13

Post by eugenejen »

logjam wrote: post #9
Rod wrote: post #3

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that th…

Oh. People who know NOTHING about Science fall squarely in the "warmists" camp. The "nutcases", "tribal", or "primitives", eh? Certainly your own biases, politics, and ideology aren't apparent from your prose, right? Plenty of good scientists besides Freeman Dyson (one of my own personal heroes) have looked at the good science on the issue, and have concluded man's activities are causing harm.

You jump to conclusion too fast before reading the article. If you read it, you will know Dyson doesn't deny that human being's activities create the current global warming. But he doubts the consequences are as dire as what activists describe in their propaganda.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#14

Post by DanielBMarkham »

Rod wrote: post #10
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell No need to do that. Socrates was saying the same thing two thousand years ago. I've come to the conclusion from watching other people that some people just have to know . I guess I can understand. It has to be hard to spend your life studying in a certain field and end up with "Well gee. It sorta looks this way guys, but we don't really know." When people slam the church for all the…

OK, I attributed the quote to the wrong philosopher ;-) Science is not perfect. After all, Science is a human activity and humans are not perfect. Ideally, there should be no place for dogma in Science. In practise, there is some. Still, let us put things in perspective: Science is inherently non-dogmatic, while Religion is inherently dogmatic. I am not diminishing one nor the other. I am observing that they have ent…

I don't think we have a disagreement.

My point was about human nature, not about religion.

I really wish Kuhn was taught as much as Newton. I think what he discovered -- the human nature of the people who practice science and how it influences the study of science -- is just as important. Maybe more so.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#15

Post by Rod »

logjam wrote: post #9
Rod wrote: post #3

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that th…

Oh. People who know NOTHING about Science fall squarely in the "warmists" camp. The "nutcases", "tribal", or "primitives", eh? Certainly your own biases, politics, and ideology aren't apparent from your prose, right? Plenty of good scientists besides Freeman Dyson (one of my own personal heroes) have looked at the good science on the issue, and have concluded man's activities are causing harm.

"People who know NOTHING about Science fall squarely in the "warmists" camp. The "nutcases", "tribal", or "primitives", eh?"

No. You didn't get the point. Sorry for not making it explicit. The point is: people who are not trained in Science (Climate Modeling in particular, Physics in general) are not qualified to speak on the topic. Their opinions count for nothing because those are based on emotion, misinformation, ideology, or plain dogma. In the old days, people seemed to know the boundaries of their knowledge, now everybody who has internet access believes he / she is an instant expert.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#16

Post by Rod »

Alex3917 wrote: post #11
Rod wrote: post #3

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that th…

"Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that there MIGHT be a possibility that global warming is not caused by humans." I'm calling your BS. There are very few if any people who believe that it is impossible that glob…

Well, since when is the media reliable? They also said Iraq had WMDs. Read some scientific papers. Seriously.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#17

Post by eugenejen »

ruby_roo wrote: post #12

I personally feel that it is better to err on the side of caution in regards to global warming. I say "feel" because I'm just not smart enough to navigate fact from fiction on this issue anymore. There's going to be extremes on both sides, but I don't see what we have to gain by not taking better care of our planet. Even if global warming is only partially manmade, shouldn't we do what we can to minimize the effect?…

I personally feel it will be futile to be cautious. Instead, we should always prepare for adapting to changes.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#18

Post by DaniFong »

Rod wrote: post #3

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." Interesting how so many people who know NOTHING about Science are SO sure that global warming is caused by man. Such dogma reminds me of the times of the 16th century Inquisition: no amount of evidence will ever convince the nutcase warmists that th…

In business, war, governance, love, and the climate, people are forced to make decisions based on sorely incomplete data because time is of the essence, and it is all they're ever going to get. If likely exaggeration is to be called out, so too are those who assert that doubt should necessarily imply inaction.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#19

Post by prewett »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #8
1gor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, general public needs to learn about his integrity, erudition and impeccable scientific standing. This is important because Dyson's opponents as a rule try some sort of character assassination instead of sticking to the subject matter.

Still, the writing is horrible.

Having gone to the article hoping for details on why Dyson disbelieves global warming, I'm disappointed like you. On reflection, I think the author intended the article to be about Dyson himself, and as such, I kind of like the writing. But, yeah, I'm disappointed about the lack of details.

Re: The Global Warming Heretic - NYTimes On Freeman Dyson

#20

Post by eugenejen »

Rod wrote: post #10
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the great Bertrand Russell No need to do that. Socrates was saying the same thing two thousand years ago. I've come to the conclusion from watching other people that some people just have to know . I guess I can understand. It has to be hard to spend your life studying in a certain field and end up with "Well gee. It sorta looks this way guys, but we don't really know." When people slam the church for all the…

OK, I attributed the quote to the wrong philosopher ;-) Science is not perfect. After all, Science is a human activity and humans are not perfect. Ideally, there should be no place for dogma in Science. In practise, there is some. Still, let us put things in perspective: Science is inherently non-dogmatic, while Religion is inherently dogmatic. I am not diminishing one nor the other. I am observing that they have ent…

Well, I think good scientists are always looking for facts that disapprove current theories and models of explanations.

There is no affirmative for theories and models, but our inability to falsify them for the time being.

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