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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#221

Post by syjer »

oneweekwonder wrote: post #103
shmerl wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like a good idea. What's wrong with Wayland?

From the article, and I'm sorry if this seems condescending, I would truly love to have a conversation about this, but I believe your question is to vague: * The input event handling partly recreates the X semantics and is thus likely to expose similar problems to the ones we described in the introductory section. * The shell integration parts of the protocol are considered privileged from our perspective and we'd ra…

From the discussion on google+ by the wayland developers [1], it looks like that the reasons given by canonical are quite poor.

[1] https://plus.google.com/100409717163242445476/posts/jDq6BAgd...

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#222

Post by VLM »

hazov wrote: post #47
zamnedix wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This is why I dislike Ubuntu. It constantly tries to appeal to Mac and Windows users.

Simply don't use it...

Embrace extend extinguish.

Wait until the only way to run FF / Chrome / 3-d accelerated video driver / vi / emacs / something else thats "critical" is to switch to Mir. After all its free, all you have to do is abandon everything else. What could go wrong?

Simply don't use it is like telling people to take up a new hobby once theirs has been destroyed. But I don't want to take up a new hobby and I like this one. Sorry, no, someone else has decided to destroy it, so don't complain or try to work around the damage just select a new hobby. Hey, you look like a technical type of person, sorry about the death of free software and all that, but I bet you'd like Ham Radio or maybe advanced model railroading? ...

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#223

Post by snowwrestler »

pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

The Layman doesn't want a desktop at all; they want a smartphone or a tablet. Want to drive mass adoption of Linux? Write a killer app for Android.

The folks who do want desktops, want those desktops to run software like MS Office or Adobe CS. If Linux can't do that, it does not matter how shiny it is.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#224

Post by eurleif »

VLM wrote: post #222
hazov wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply don't use it...

Embrace extend extinguish. Wait until the only way to run FF / Chrome / 3-d accelerated video driver / vi / emacs / something else thats "critical" is to switch to Mir. After all its free, all you have to do is abandon everything else. What could go wrong? Simply don't use it is like telling people to take up a new hobby once theirs has been destroyed. But I don't want to take up a new hobby and I like this one. Sorr…

If a free software program decided to stop supporting X and Wayland, it would be because no one cared enough to contribute the code for continued support, which would imply that very few people were still choosing to use X or Wayland over Mir. If Mir really ends up being that wonderful, why shouldn't it win?

How does one free software program replacing another constitute the death of free software?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#225

Post by ldng »

raverbashing wrote: post #84
mercurial wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly, also usually consuming more CPU than flash player You make a sweeping statement which is not true for every system. Looking at what happens playing a Youtube music video, according to htop: - pulseaudio is using between 0 and 1% CPU - plugin-container (wrapping Flash) is at 3% - firefox oscillates between 20 and 40% Now, my under…

Thanks for this insightful answer I'm not sure I have a bad driver, the last two chipsets I used were Intel (and no weird audio devices), works fine with other sw. Latest distro tested: RHEL 6 and Fedora 16 For me, PA would stay around 5%, 10% sometimes, and even more depending on the task. Not to mention crashing every week (at a random moment)

Hum do you mean HDA by Intel ? If so, look closer because HDA is an umbrella for a lot of codecs.

Edit: to be clearer, HDA does not automatically mean Intel chip. I made that mistake before.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#226

Post by [deleted] »

HerraBRE wrote: post #197
hmo09 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already have more developers contributing to useful upstream code than Canonical (Webkit, cups, LLVM).

Placating the tech crowd by giving away fragments of low level code is really just marketing and a way to retain talent that would otherwise refuse to work for them. It's not as if their users can actually use any of that stuff to change how their macs work (without switching to a different OS or browser).

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#227

Post by Retric »

HerraBRE wrote: post #197
hmo09 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already have more developers contributing to useful upstream code than Canonical (Webkit, cups, LLVM).

Placating the tech crowd by giving away fragments of low level code is really just marketing and a way to retain talent that would otherwise refuse to work for them. It's not as if their users can actually use any of that stuff to change how their macs work (without switching to a different OS or browser).

WebKit for one has fairly wide adoption outside of pure Mac OS X. As for the rest of it, just because something is open source don't expect many people to use it.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#228

Post by brigade »

prg318 wrote: post #136
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

One of the largest issues that I can foresee with this is proprietary drivers for graphics cards. NVIDIA has delivered high quality drivers for Linux/X11 for their cards and tend to release new drivers quickly when new X11 versions are released. Are gfx hardware manufacturers expected to support separate drivers for Linux (X11) and Ubuntu (mir)? and potentially distributions that use Wayland? I can only imagine how A…

> Ability to leverage existing drivers implementing the Android driver model [1]

This is huge for ARM; very few vendors bother developing any sort of an OpenGL driver for X11, and drivers for same GPU often not only SoC specific, but sometimes device specific as well.

[1] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/03/04/mir-an-outpost-envisione...

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#229

Post by hazov »

VLM wrote: post #222
hazov wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply don't use it...

Embrace extend extinguish. Wait until the only way to run FF / Chrome / 3-d accelerated video driver / vi / emacs / something else thats "critical" is to switch to Mir. After all its free, all you have to do is abandon everything else. What could go wrong? Simply don't use it is like telling people to take up a new hobby once theirs has been destroyed. But I don't want to take up a new hobby and I like this one. Sorr…

vi or emacs? Not going to happen, these are among the most portable software that exists.

About Chrome or FF that's only depends on the developers who use the product, I doubt that Google will ever target Mir, actually I believe that the GTK+ backend could target Mir and then boom, all GTK+ applications will then run on Mir, including Chrome. If Google ever comes to target a system with their browser this will probably be Chrome OS.

Firefox is another beast, but unless there's a decision to abandon Linux altogether there'll be devs working on it, or on iceweasel, it's Debian cousin, and this will probably run/compile in every Linux (and BSDs?) out there.

About 3D this is a shit area, I believe this move signals that Canonical will try to sell ARM computers in the future, there's a know lack of free drivers for GPUs in the ARM world. To see what I mean you'll only have to search for the Raspberry Pi "open source" GPU drivers debacle to see how things are going. This is not a criticism of Broadcom who has it's trade secrets to protect, but there the situation is far from perfect and always will be.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#230

Post by buddylw »

kunai wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

An open OS X, while slightly oxymoronic, sounds pretty fantastic to me.
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