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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#41

Post by Sanddancer »

hmo09 wrote: post #14
pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

Regardless of the technical considerations, Linux and its surrounding ecosystem has a long history of many different companies co-operating on core software. Canonical's philosophy seems to fly directly against that - so far we have: Launchpad / Upstart / Unity / Mir Launchpad is free-software by name only, and Canonical actively discourage you to setup your own instance. Upstart hasn't been widely adopted outside of…

Upstart was used because it was better than traditional init, and was used by Fedora as well. Then again, Linux could have had a much better init system many years ago, but the GPL zealots wouldn't hear of having launchd, and its less restrictive license, be used.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#42

Post by sneak »

zamnedix wrote: post #36
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Linux idiots weren't senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo, it wouldn't have taken 20 years (or Canonical) to replace the clusterfuck that is X.

I use Linux and I don't even use a graphical environment most of the time because all it does is slow me down. (When I do use one, it's Ratpoison.) The most effective Linux developers I know work similarly. I believe this is a large cause of us being "senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo". I don't know if you're calling all Linux users idiots or what, but I consider Linux idiots as t…

I am not calling all linux users idiots.

I made a picture for you to clarify:

http://i.imgur.com/ulGCde2.png (not to scale.)

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#43

Post by takluyver »

jlgreco wrote: post #35
pilgrim689 wrote: post #10

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

> the Layman discovers that Linux can possibly be just as shiny as Mac OS. Why do we want the layman to be using Linux? To give Valve more Linux customers or something? We should let them be. Laymen will invariably be better served by Microsoft or Apple, trying to win them over in some sort of misguided drive to "win" market-share seems foolish. Linux should focus on it's niche, and Microsoft and Apple theirs. This m…

Practically: I want to be using a system that I can be confident has good hardware & software support, not always double checking everything I buy to make sure it will work. That means getting at least a few % market share so that other companies take it seriously.

There's also an ideological angle: many Linux users feel that there's something wrong with a world where only the technically adept can use a free, open source operating system.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#44

Post by hmo09 »

kunai wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

Apple already have more developers contributing to useful upstream code than Canonical (Webkit, cups, LLVM).

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#45

Post by rmc »

acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

On the other hand, innovation and inventing can be good. There are new things all the time (e.g. git).

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#46

Post by LukeShu »

chao- wrote: post #21
ihsw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't Linux idiots (whatever that means) or their cautionary tendencies, it's Canonical.

Care to elaborate? Your comment reads as a sentence-long "NO, YOU!" right now. What about Canonical is a problem, and who are they causing the problem for? As a "Linux idiot" myself, I hear your disapproval of the parent post, but am curious to hear the details that support your opinion (I might be able to learn something from it).

This is how I parsed the conversation:

    pilgrim689: Why is everybody hating on Canonical for
                ditching X11?
    sneak: Because they're "Linux idiots" who love X11.	
    ihsw: They don't love X11, they just hate Canonical.
ihsw is saying that the change isn't getting negative reactions because of the change itself, but because it is being made by Canonical.

edit: I accidentally using the wrong verb form.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#47

Post by hazov »

zamnedix wrote: post #37
jlgreco wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Layman discovers that Linux can possibly be just as shiny as Mac OS. Why do we want the layman to be using Linux? To give Valve more Linux customers or something? We should let them be. Laymen will invariably be better served by Microsoft or Apple, trying to win them over in some sort of misguided drive to "win" market-share seems foolish. Linux should focus on it's niche, and Microsoft and Apple theirs. This m…

I agree. This is why I dislike Ubuntu. It constantly tries to appeal to Mac and Windows users.

Simply don't use it...

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#48

Post by hazov »

kunai wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

Which standards are these? Besides using the kernel compiled with gcc and using dynamic linked ELF binaries as their default and a libc on the system the only standard that I ever knew of was LSB, which I believe does not include anything about graphics (I can be wrong).

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#49

Post by justincormack »

kunai wrote: post #39
acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

Much more open. Like actually open. There is a reasonable case that there has been too little innovation in the last 10 years. I first used X Windows more than 20 years ago and it was amazing then but holding stuff back with old standards now?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#50

Post by lucian1900 »

rlpb wrote: post #26
lucian1900 wrote: post #4

Wtf? "We don't like Wayland because of ... reasons, let's build our own stack from scratch!"

Why don't you address the specific technical reasons given in TFA?

None of those few reasons are particularity compelling and they could be addressed with Wayland just as well.
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