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My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

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Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#2

Post by Femur »

Although the article touches on a fascinating subject, I disagree with the analogy the author drew between neurons and C++ code; specifically the "lines of code per Neuron." Individual neurons do not have code.

The author also advocates buying stock in Cryonics companies. The only two Cryonics organizations I know of are Alcor and The Cryonics Institute. Neither of these are publicly traded.

Interesting fact: Ted Williams is stored at Alcor. Paris Hilton has signed up with The Cryonics Institute.

I personally will be neuro-suspended at Alcor. I am the #830-something person to sign up there. For those who are interested for themselves, it is actually rather cheap to fund with term life insurance.

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#3

Post by Retric »

Femur wrote: post #2

Although the article touches on a fascinating subject, I disagree with the analogy the author drew between neurons and C++ code; specifically the "lines of code per Neuron." Individual neurons do not have code. The author also advocates buying stock in Cryonics companies. The only two Cryonics organizations I know of are Alcor and The Cryonics Institute. Neither of these are publicly traded. Interesting fact: Ted Wil…

Good luck.

I suspect that a 1percent loss of neurons would probably still create a reasonable approximation for who you where. You might forget some childhood memory's etc, but the human brain is extremely redundant (unlike software) so it's not a error prone as we might think. IMO, The real issue would be avoiding creating lot's of false connections lest we wake of with even more fake memory's.

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#4

Post by Femur »

Retric wrote: post #3
Femur wrote: post #2

Although the article touches on a fascinating subject, I disagree with the analogy the author drew between neurons and C++ code; specifically the "lines of code per Neuron." Individual neurons do not have code. The author also advocates buying stock in Cryonics companies. The only two Cryonics organizations I know of are Alcor and The Cryonics Institute. Neither of these are publicly traded. Interesting fact: Ted Wil…

Good luck. I suspect that a 1percent loss of neurons would probably still create a reasonable approximation for who you where. You might forget some childhood memory's etc, but the human brain is extremely redundant (unlike software) so it's not a error prone as we might think. IMO, The real issue would be avoiding creating lot's of false connections lest we wake of with even more fake memory's.

I think you are likely correct. I kill quite a few neurons with a night of heavy drinking and indeed do "mis-remember" what happened in reality.

Brains are very redundant (as you mentioned) and they are also dynamic. The way I remember an event now will probably be different than the way I remember the same event 10 years from now.

Thanks for the wishes of good luck. I figure its worth a shot, although I have doubts that it will work. Plus, being burned to ashes or being put under dirt does not really appeal to me.

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#5

Post by ricmorton »

Interesting article, however I would say that five lines of C++ code per neuron is pretty optimistic considering the amount of work going into modeling a neuron in the blue brain project; http://seedmagazine.com/designseries/henry-markram.html

Also I remember reading in Code Complete that the space-shuttle software had zero defects per 500,000 lines of code by combining formal development methods, peer reviews, and statistical testing. Not really sured how they 'proved' there were zero defects, but I'm sure you could get the number far lower than 1 per 100 lines.

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#6

Post by donw »

ricmorton wrote: post #5

Interesting article, however I would say that five lines of C++ code per neuron is pretty optimistic considering the amount of work going into modeling a neuron in the blue brain project; http://seedmagazine.com/designseries/henry-markram.html Also I remember reading in Code Complete that the space-shuttle software had zero defects per 500,000 lines of code by combining formal development methods, peer reviews, and s…

The basic premise of writing a model for the entire human brain in software is bunk. The general idea, as I understand it, is to write a piece of software that simulates the biochemical processes that happen in the brain, with the neurons themselves being represented by some sort of graph.

Basically, the 'brain-in-a-jar', except the jar is virtualized.

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#7

Post by ericb »

donw wrote: post #6
ricmorton wrote: post #5

Interesting article, however I would say that five lines of C++ code per neuron is pretty optimistic considering the amount of work going into modeling a neuron in the blue brain project; http://seedmagazine.com/designseries/henry-markram.html Also I remember reading in Code Complete that the space-shuttle software had zero defects per 500,000 lines of code by combining formal development methods, peer reviews, and s…

The basic premise of writing a model for the entire human brain in software is bunk. The general idea, as I understand it, is to write a piece of software that simulates the biochemical processes that happen in the brain, with the neurons themselves being represented by some sort of graph. Basically, the 'brain-in-a-jar', except the jar is virtualized.

Could you elaborate on why you think it is bunk?

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#8

Post by stcredzero »

Femur wrote: post #2

Although the article touches on a fascinating subject, I disagree with the analogy the author drew between neurons and C++ code; specifically the "lines of code per Neuron." Individual neurons do not have code. The author also advocates buying stock in Cryonics companies. The only two Cryonics organizations I know of are Alcor and The Cryonics Institute. Neither of these are publicly traded. Interesting fact: Ted Wil…

"Individual neurons do not have code."

Actually, proteome-related research on synapses has found strong evidence that a significant amount of computation happens in the synapse. Higher mammals have distinct kinds of synapses, and these seem to coincide with specific cognitive abilities.

This is discussed in episode 51 of the Brain Science Podcast.

PDF: http://docartemis.com/brain%20science/51-brainscience-Grant....

Re: My estimate of possible defect rates in cryonics

#9

Post by rw »

donw wrote: post #6
ricmorton wrote: post #5

Interesting article, however I would say that five lines of C++ code per neuron is pretty optimistic considering the amount of work going into modeling a neuron in the blue brain project; http://seedmagazine.com/designseries/henry-markram.html Also I remember reading in Code Complete that the space-shuttle software had zero defects per 500,000 lines of code by combining formal development methods, peer reviews, and s…

The basic premise of writing a model for the entire human brain in software is bunk. The general idea, as I understand it, is to write a piece of software that simulates the biochemical processes that happen in the brain, with the neurons themselves being represented by some sort of graph. Basically, the 'brain-in-a-jar', except the jar is virtualized.

Do you have any actual criticisms of modeling brains in software?

Please read http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

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