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Today's Outage Post Mortem

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#131

Post by windexh8er »

pyvpx wrote: post #81
rdl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there aren't really any viable options" to juniper or cisco for core/edge routers. There are some routing protocols which interoperate (which is how different sites on the Internet can talk to each other), but most of the protocols used for HA or management of a given set of routers, or, more importantly, most tested/debugged implementations of HA and device management, are Cisco or Juniper specific. No big deal ann…

you can't utilize OSPF, ISIS, BGP, et. al. for high availability? You do realize HSRP is merely for a redundant gateway address, right? most service provider networks manage via the CLI (generally scripted, for better or worse) and occasionally a vendor-specific API. while I will agree juniper and cisco are generally the best choice for core/edge routers, there are other 'viable' options depending on your requirement…

Wow, just... Wow. So. Far. Off. Base. (see my post above)

Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#132

Post by rdl »

windexh8er wrote: post #130
rdl wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"there aren't really any viable options" to juniper or cisco for core/edge routers. There are some routing protocols which interoperate (which is how different sites on the Internet can talk to each other), but most of the protocols used for HA or management of a given set of routers, or, more importantly, most tested/debugged implementations of HA and device management, are Cisco or Juniper specific. No big deal ann…

Well, no. I've been in network engineering for 12+ years and I fundamentally disagree with a lot of what is said about "networking" and interop by many programmer-types (not casting here, but) on HN. Yes, yes, you may understand system DevOps to a point, however I'm not sure you've spent a significant amount of time studying Dijkstra's algorithm or truly have an idea of how to deploy a global IPv6 overlay. I'm also n…

Virtually no network engineers (by percentage) have to do anything other than worry about what their vendor supports for a given configuration (and usually a fairly small set of configurations, too); it's much more about policy and operations.

Similarly very few developers have to solve open CS problems in writing a CRUD application (or I guess more comparably to ops, come up with a novel implementation of a complex algorithm).

This is progress, though.

Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#133

Post by windexh8er »

rdl wrote: post #132
windexh8er wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no. I've been in network engineering for 12+ years and I fundamentally disagree with a lot of what is said about "networking" and interop by many programmer-types (not casting here, but) on HN. Yes, yes, you may understand system DevOps to a point, however I'm not sure you've spent a significant amount of time studying Dijkstra's algorithm or truly have an idea of how to deploy a global IPv6 overlay. I'm also n…

Virtually no network engineers (by percentage) have to do anything other than worry about what their vendor supports for a given configuration (and usually a fairly small set of configurations, too); it's much more about policy and operations. Similarly very few developers have to solve open CS problems in writing a CRUD application (or I guess more comparably to ops, come up with a novel implementation of a complex…

"Virtually no network engineers (by percentage) have to do anything other than worry about what their vendor supports for a given configuration" - this statement puts a perspective on your thinking. And then I read your information on the services your company offers, and I realize that it's not worth having a discussion.

" takes your security very seriously." - right. That's a statement, not information regarding the thought or implementation. There's not even a mention of technology.

Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#134

Post by oijaf888 »

larrys wrote: post #96
tlrobinson wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction is a bit arbitrary. As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed, not whether they own the buildings where the servers are kept.

"As a customer you should care that their service is geographically distributed" Don't agree. If you own the data center you have more control over it. We had a case where the UPS systems in a data center had bad batteries and equipment went down because the batteries failed to kick in. Since we don't own the data center we have no realistic way to make inspections and make sure the right thing happens or that the ba…

Or you could just engineer your systems to take that into account and realize that you can't trust the data center's power so you have to be able to quickly and easily shift all the load to another one.

Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#135

Post by tedchs »

What I don't understand is why Cloudflare is making changes to their border routers in the process of protecting their customers. I am a network engineer and I love Juniper, but the reality is with any complex system, every change you make has a possibility of inducing an unexpected failure. I would think Cloudflare would have increased stability by using an architecture where the border routers have a mostly static config, and there is a set of firewalls (e.g. Juniper SRX 5800) behind them that are doing the actual filtering and changing configs in response to threats.

Re: Today's Outage Post Mortem

#136

Post by JoachimSchipper »

windexh8er wrote: post #133
rdl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtually no network engineers (by percentage) have to do anything other than worry about what their vendor supports for a given configuration (and usually a fairly small set of configurations, too); it's much more about policy and operations. Similarly very few developers have to solve open CS problems in writing a CRUD application (or I guess more comparably to ops, come up with a novel implementation of a complex…

"Virtually no network engineers (by percentage) have to do anything other than worry about what their vendor supports for a given configuration" - this statement puts a perspective on your thinking. And then I read your information on the services your company offers, and I realize that it's not worth having a discussion. " takes your security very seriously." - right. That's a statement, not information regarding th…

Be nice.
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