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SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

arstechnica.com

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Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#11

Post by InclinedPlane »

csixty4 wrote: post #4
eliben wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see the total cost of this mission, and compare it to the total cost of similar NASA missions in the past.

I'm sure there's a lot of information that could paint a more complete picture, but here's a start. According to NASA[1], a shuttle launch cost $450 million on average. Their contract with SpaceX covers 12 launches for $1.6 billion[2], or roughly $133 million per launch. SpaceX also received $75 million from NASA to develop a crewed version of the Dragon capsule. I'm sure NASA has made other payments to SpaceX over t…

The $450 million / flight cost for a Shuttle is a fantasy, it's a hypothetical sort of best-case cost. Over the lifetime of the program the actual cost was $1.5 billion.

Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#13

Post by InclinedPlane »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #9
csixty4 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there's a lot of information that could paint a more complete picture, but here's a start. According to NASA[1], a shuttle launch cost $450 million on average. Their contract with SpaceX covers 12 launches for $1.6 billion[2], or roughly $133 million per launch. SpaceX also received $75 million from NASA to develop a crewed version of the Dragon capsule. I'm sure NASA has made other payments to SpaceX over t…

If a shuttle launch and a Dragon launch have the same utility, what you say is true, but the shuttle can carry a lot more cargo. For example, the Dragon is nowhere near large enough to carry a full space station module. I'm not sure that this renders what you said false , but there's a lot more to it than this.

That's a bit of a red herring. In terms of specific utility for cargo delivery / return they are actually fairly comparable, in cost at least. Dragon will probably pull ahead as they load it with more cargo in later flights using the upgraded Falcon 9 v1.1.

In terms of space station modules, any new modules are more likely to be delivered in standalone launches from an expendable vehicle (such as the Falcon Heavy). Although, the SpaceX CRS-8 mission is expected to deliver the Bigelow Expandable Activity module, but it's a fairly tiny module.

Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#14

Post by eliben »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
eliben wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see the total cost of this mission, and compare it to the total cost of similar NASA missions in the past.

Cost is an unknown except to SpaceX. Price (i.e. cost to the consumer) is easier to figure out but a little more complicated for reasons I'll explain later. The easiest direct comparison would be to the ESA's ATV. Each ATV launch costs around $900 million in amortized development costs plus vehicle costs plus launch costs. But, it delivers 6,595 kg of cargo, which puts the delivered cost of cargo at about $132/gram.…

Very interesting, thank you.

Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#15

Post by ramidarigaz »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
eliben wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see the total cost of this mission, and compare it to the total cost of similar NASA missions in the past.

Cost is an unknown except to SpaceX. Price (i.e. cost to the consumer) is easier to figure out but a little more complicated for reasons I'll explain later. The easiest direct comparison would be to the ESA's ATV. Each ATV launch costs around $900 million in amortized development costs plus vehicle costs plus launch costs. But, it delivers 6,595 kg of cargo, which puts the delivered cost of cargo at about $132/gram.…

Wow. I had no idea the ATV was so expensive.

As a side note, your comments in space-related threads are always awesome. Do you work in the industry?

Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#19

Post by ChuckMcM »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
eliben wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see the total cost of this mission, and compare it to the total cost of similar NASA missions in the past.

Cost is an unknown except to SpaceX. Price (i.e. cost to the consumer) is easier to figure out but a little more complicated for reasons I'll explain later. The easiest direct comparison would be to the ESA's ATV. Each ATV launch costs around $900 million in amortized development costs plus vehicle costs plus launch costs. But, it delivers 6,595 kg of cargo, which puts the delivered cost of cargo at about $132/gram.…

Nicely laid out, of course the "coolness" thing here is that the marginal cost of getting additional cargo is $25 - $30 per gm. Less if you can go with a non-returnable module.

But the thing that really gets me excited is that "you" being the person trying to get stuff into orbit, not having to go to NASA or Boeing to do so. If the only thing between something on the ground and something in orbit is a well defined amount of money, it is possible to compute the ROI for sending something to the L1 point for example.

Re: SpaceX Dragon successfully docks with International Space Station

#20

Post by opminion »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #10
eliben wrote: post #2

It would be interesting to see the total cost of this mission, and compare it to the total cost of similar NASA missions in the past.

Cost is an unknown except to SpaceX. Price (i.e. cost to the consumer) is easier to figure out but a little more complicated for reasons I'll explain later. The easiest direct comparison would be to the ESA's ATV. Each ATV launch costs around $900 million in amortized development costs plus vehicle costs plus launch costs. But, it delivers 6,595 kg of cargo, which puts the delivered cost of cargo at about $132/gram.…

The $132/g vs $127/g price would make sense, all other things being equal (which are not, ok), if SpaceX were pricing in a duopoly, right?
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