Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Growing By Shrinking

hackertourism.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 50 posts

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#31

Post by anu_gupta »

peteforde wrote: post #11
codewright wrote: post #2

I identify with, and am seeking for myself, a lot of things described here. That said, the author is speaking from an intensely privileged point of view. Referring to selling one's time as a programmer as 'whoring' caused me to cringe. I have strong aversion to growth for growth's sake now that I've lived and worked in Silicon Valley and the startups that go with it (I was CTO at a nutrition startup). Things I've don…

Fair point re: whoring, so far as we might have to agree to disagree. Let me explain differently by saying that when I was young, I wanted nothing more than to get paid to program. I loved to code, and I needed to get paid — professional coding was the obvious answer. The problem was that by my mid-20s I was really sad all of the time, and my work was at the root of it. I was programming and getting paid, yet the mor…

So, instead of whoring your developer skills, you're whoring your technical knowledge?

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#32

Post by guylhem »

seivan wrote: post #25

I agree with you. A small team of founders that are just developers who can design will outbeat ANYTHING that might have some VC money behind it. You don't need business monkeys, or "UX experts" who can't code their JS/CSS. I hate it when iOS positions already have a lead designer who can't do Cocoa. It's such stupid notion. It's like saying we're looking for a CSS developer, we already have a lead HTML developer. iO…

Sorry to deceive you but when I see the truth, I can only upvote it.

There is a lot of cruft in many businesses - so much inefficiency, that it can hardly be removed by joining in their ride. The software industry is not immune to that.

Therefore it just is more logical to do something by yourself.

After all, there are only 2 possibles outcomes - you do bring value, which will be rewarded by the market, or you don't - and at least, it won't last too long. Unefficiency is a pain.

Create your business. Sink or swim, with the added advantage (schadenfreude ?) of watching the inefficient ones drown while you swim around.

There no personal hate involved- I don't hate them, and in fact I may even feel sorry. It's the inefficiency that I hate.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#33

Post by guylhem »

brador wrote: post #29
kayoone wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes working extra hard in your younger years makes you rich before 30, which in a vast majority of cases does not happen, no matter if you work for a startup, bigco or on your own.

Rich or comfortable wealth or your own personal limits? You can retire to a lifetime of minimum wage and no more work ever for just $200k. A good software engineer could back that up in under 5 years. Play video games all day stress free till death if that's your thing. (not recommended).

Indeed, not recommended - I'd call that just waiting for death.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#34

Post by seivan »

guylhem wrote: post #32
seivan wrote: post #25

I agree with you. A small team of founders that are just developers who can design will outbeat ANYTHING that might have some VC money behind it. You don't need business monkeys, or "UX experts" who can't code their JS/CSS. I hate it when iOS positions already have a lead designer who can't do Cocoa. It's such stupid notion. It's like saying we're looking for a CSS developer, we already have a lead HTML developer. iO…

Sorry to deceive you but when I see the truth, I can only upvote it. There is a lot of cruft in many businesses - so much inefficiency, that it can hardly be removed by joining in their ride. The software industry is not immune to that. Therefore it just is more logical to do something by yourself. After all, there are only 2 possibles outcomes - you do bring value, which will be rewarded by the market, or you don't…

Wow, well put. You're more eloquent than I am, making me feel like an obnoxious brute. But well put.

Although I wish was like you with the lack of personal hate, but I can't get my head around it. But kudos for doing so. I hope to get there one day. Thanks, made my day.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#35

Post by joedev »

peteforde wrote: post #11
codewright wrote: post #2

I identify with, and am seeking for myself, a lot of things described here. That said, the author is speaking from an intensely privileged point of view. Referring to selling one's time as a programmer as 'whoring' caused me to cringe. I have strong aversion to growth for growth's sake now that I've lived and worked in Silicon Valley and the startups that go with it (I was CTO at a nutrition startup). Things I've don…

Fair point re: whoring, so far as we might have to agree to disagree. Let me explain differently by saying that when I was young, I wanted nothing more than to get paid to program. I loved to code, and I needed to get paid — professional coding was the obvious answer. The problem was that by my mid-20s I was really sad all of the time, and my work was at the root of it. I was programming and getting paid, yet the mor…

I love getting paid to program. The trick is in carefully selecting projects, teams, and clients plus actively setting expectations (e.g. staying in the driver's seat) such that you are not working on other people's schedules. Otherwise, yes, freelancing turns out to be just like having a boss. And that's no fun.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#36

Post by yesimahuman »

This quote spoke to me:

> "Unspace was a convenient umbrella; an excuse for three friends with complimentary skill sets to share a small office"

In a lot of ways my company right now is just an excuse for me and my best friend to build cool software together and have our own office. It just turns out the money is coming with it and we are able to build a real business out of it.

We've had chances to raise money and grow but we know deep in our hearts it's not what we want. It was hard to be "okay" with this because everyone throws the VC stuff at you and makes you think you should be "going big" and killing yourself at 25. Understanding and being confident that we could still be a "big", important, and profitable company in our space by doing it "our way" has been a really big milestone of our personal and professional growth.

Great post.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#37

Post by saravk »

Nice. Congrats on your move. I wrote a similar post exactly 2 years earlier when i decided to downshift from my job of about 10 years and go live in the mountains doing photography http://www.kettik.com/go/articles/16. Reading your post made me go down the memory lane and examine my own journey.

Fast forward 2 years and i have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. Monetarily its been a complete flop, failing to earn even a single paise in the past 2 years. But spiritually, the memories and experiences gathered along the way have been priceless. Sounds like a classic Mastercard ad, doesn't it :D

All this experience did motivate me to create my startup. I have to say that i totally resonate with your "the only code I write will be for my personal projects" line. It feels more fulfilling this way. But ofcourse there is no guarantee that this would arrest the rapid depletion of my bank balance (as opposed to taking up parttime consulting gigs). Only time will tell.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#38

Post by peteforde »

anu_gupta wrote: post #31
peteforde wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point re: whoring, so far as we might have to agree to disagree. Let me explain differently by saying that when I was young, I wanted nothing more than to get paid to program. I loved to code, and I needed to get paid — professional coding was the obvious answer. The problem was that by my mid-20s I was really sad all of the time, and my work was at the root of it. I was programming and getting paid, yet the mor…

So, instead of whoring your developer skills, you're whoring your technical knowledge?

I'm not whoring my technical knowledge. I discovered that I really enjoy sharing it, and it's a happy coincidence that people are excited to pay for it.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#39

Post by FourthProtocol »

guylhem wrote: post #32
seivan wrote: post #25

I agree with you. A small team of founders that are just developers who can design will outbeat ANYTHING that might have some VC money behind it. You don't need business monkeys, or "UX experts" who can't code their JS/CSS. I hate it when iOS positions already have a lead designer who can't do Cocoa. It's such stupid notion. It's like saying we're looking for a CSS developer, we already have a lead HTML developer. iO…

Sorry to deceive you but when I see the truth, I can only upvote it. There is a lot of cruft in many businesses - so much inefficiency, that it can hardly be removed by joining in their ride. The software industry is not immune to that. Therefore it just is more logical to do something by yourself. After all, there are only 2 possibles outcomes - you do bring value, which will be rewarded by the market, or you don't…

It's not that simple. My forever project (started in 2004) needs another month or so of polish, but after stripping out many features to ship a version one, is pretty much ready.

Build it and they will come doesn't work. I need paying customers, and being the type that works best when writing code (alone!), I'm about to start exploring options to find someone to market this thing for me, and turn my spare time over the last 9 years into something that makes real money.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#40

Post by peteforde »

yesimahuman wrote: post #36

This quote spoke to me: > "Unspace was a convenient umbrella; an excuse for three friends with complimentary skill sets to share a small office" In a lot of ways my company right now is just an excuse for me and my best friend to build cool software together and have our own office. It just turns out the money is coming with it and we are able to build a real business out of it. We've had chances to raise money and g…

There's a really amazing moment in "An Evening With Kevin Smith" (highly recommended!) where he recounts meeting some dick producer who admonished him over concerns of practicality.

"Kevin, making movies isn't about getting together with your friends and having a good time!"

[Pauses] "It isn't?"

Post reply on HN