Disclosure: I graduated from Princeton in 2007 This article (which I skimmed) seems to use Princeton as a counterpoint to Harvard's supposed cheating culture and lax attitude towards academics. I have no idea whether students actually treat academics with more respect than their Crimson counterparts "on average". However , I can definitely say that the kind of collaboration/copying/cheating that is described for Harv…
The Fall of Academics at Harvard
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Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#42Disclosure: I graduated from Princeton in 2007 This article (which I skimmed) seems to use Princeton as a counterpoint to Harvard's supposed cheating culture and lax attitude towards academics. I have no idea whether students actually treat academics with more respect than their Crimson counterparts "on average". However , I can definitely say that the kind of collaboration/copying/cheating that is described for Harv…
I am a current student at Dartmouth, and it's the same here as well. Especially in a class with a curve, a student is at a serious disadvantage if he/she doesn't collaborate, copy, or cheat.
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#43Disclosure: I graduated from Princeton in 2007 This article (which I skimmed) seems to use Princeton as a counterpoint to Harvard's supposed cheating culture and lax attitude towards academics. I have no idea whether students actually treat academics with more respect than their Crimson counterparts "on average". However , I can definitely say that the kind of collaboration/copying/cheating that is described for Harv…
Cornell wasn't really any better. I commonly came across cheating rings, especially among international students.
I did have a professor tell us an anecdote of discovering such "collaboration" in his classes and tell us he wouldn't stand for it (and yes, they were Chinese), but that's the only encounter I had.
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#44It's no different at Carnegie Mellon. I spoke to a former SCS dean who revealed that cheating rates in CS courses are as high as 70%, yet most professors turn a blind eye (which as the Crimson article points out, may be attributed to apathy or inability to enforce class policy at a large scale). The fact that academic dishonesty is so prevalent these days makes me inclined to believe that cheating is symptomatic of t…
As far as I can tell, there's a lot of awareness against cheating here. Most, if not all, of my professors have gone out of their way to stress how cheating is a terrible thing, devalues the degree, etc.
As a TA, I've seen some cheating on homework, but not nearly as much as described in the article. Our professor certainly does NOT turn a blind eye to it, assuming it's caught via software or we're able to catch it on the written part.
One of the worst parts of CMU is this weird aversion to seeking help. We try our best to hold a lot of office hours, especially in the lower level courses, but a fair number of students don't take advantage of them, or of the other helpful opportunities (e.g. one-on-one tutoring), because they fear some stigma against them. The worst part of CMU academic culture is that attitude: that it's not okay to seek help if you're struggling.
Shivak (another responder to your post) put it pretty well: academic stratification is what happens here, as well as some social stratification. If you're part of that group of people who fits well at the Gates 3K cluster, then you can get basically all the help you need from the myriad of upper level TAs who hang out there (hay geohot how do i kernel???). Also, CMU can be pretty fucked up socially in general, but that's for another post.
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#45Everyone thinks you are stupid or evil if you cheat yet it has a deeper meaning here.We have to ask ourselves, why would someone cheat?Does it matter if it's Harvard or Stanford?No, it doesn't.The reasons are usually the same wherever you go.
The first one I can think of is Lack of Interest.The student simply doesn't give a about a certain course, and he knows he will never use it after graduation so he decides to cheat on the exam.Cheating himself?No, because he doesn't like that course at all and he will not use it in the future, so why wasting his time.No benefits, nothing coming out of this course.
An example would be the GE in the first 2 years of college.I believe it's a waste of time and money. That's why other countries don't use it.
The second one is Lack of Enthusiasm. Maybe the student doesn't like the professor or the way he teaches.Maybe he knows more than the professor.Maybe he needs something extra.Who knows...But surely this can lead to cheating as well, although this would definitely impact your future if the course is connected with your job aspirations.
The third one is No Social Life/Seeking Popularity among certain groups.Some students think that by cheating they can get in some fraternities or joining famous campus groups or getting the "girl next door" etc. A shortcut to something which they cannot obtain through other means.You don't see a movie where cheating is not cool, do you?Look at some of the commercials.Nothing negative about cheating.
Forth would be the so called "corporate mindset".They look at some billionaire stories and unethical companies that make a lot of money through schemes and cheating.I mean look at the Wall Street movies.I don't think there is one movie where characters make money by being ethical.So students think that's cool.Heck, they even drop college thinking they can become a SJ or BG.There is no other way...
I think I'll stop here but there are many more.Should we consider all of them stupid?Well, not really.The truth is the world today is not the same as the one 10-20 years ago.And yes, companies don't play fair.How can you encourage someone to be ethical when most of the top 500 companies are on the other side of the spectrum.
How can you survive as a business if most of the competition is cheating in some way?You cannot.
Let's take an example here:
Student A = Cheating/Unethical Student B = Studying/Ethical
A gets a 4.0 GPA by cheating through college.* B gets a 3.5 by playing it fair.
*Assuming Student A is not retarded or anything and he cheats when he needs to, not to the point where he couldn't bring any value to a company after graduating.
Who will get the job at a top company? Probably A because if a 4.0 is a requirement, the recruiter will completely ignore B.Can you blame the recruiter?Not really.It's impossible to ask 1000 people if they cheated or not and so on. Not fair for the hard-working student.
That's just my 2 cents.Sorry for my bad writing.
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#46Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#47Edit: I'll add that there was an honor code that all students were required to sign, but it seemed that the gist was 'we'll give you a ton of leeway, but if you are dumb enough to get caught, the consequences will be extremely harsh.' That way both sides win: students can share test questions and answers with little risk of being caught, and the school can seem serious about cheating by occasionally expelling the most egregious violators.
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#48To quote: "the purpose of Harvard is not to educate students. If anything, its primary purpose is to produce research and scholarly work."
Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#49Re: The Fall of Academics at Harvard
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some random anecdotes: I went to Pomona College, which was a very different place than the one described in the Crimson article. While I'm sure cheating did take place, I was never witness to it, nor was there any cultural expectation that it occurred. Students tended to view cheating as just screwing yourself over in the long run (paying that much money to avoid get an education is a waste of time). Harvey Mudd Coll…
Do you really think nobody was cheating at Pomona & Harvey Mudd? Perhaps those schools follow educational philosophies that deemphasize relative performance like Brown's gradeless system or emphasizing "cooperation" over individual ability. If your performance did not matter then perhaps there would be no incentive to cheat (or study). However these students are still humans and humans are lazy, greedy and proud - th…
>Do you really think nobody was cheating at Pomona & Harvey Mudd? Perhaps those schools follow educational philosophies that deemphasize relative performance like Brown's gradeless system or emphasizing "cooperation" over individual ability. If your performance did not matter then perhaps there would be no incentive to cheat (or study). However these students are still humans and humans are lazy, greedy and proud - thus prone to cheating.
I can't speak for Pomona, but many HMC classes have timed, closed book take home exams. It would be trivially easy to cheat on these. On homework, collaboration was usually encouraged, with the caveat that problems sets should ultimately be written up individually -- what policy to take was the choice of the professor.
We certainly had grades.
>Maybe because they are small and there is no incentive to publicize episodes of cheating and damage their brand no stories have come out yet. Still a quick search finds several articles indicating concerns at these schools. And sister school Claremont McKenna has had several major scandals in recent years.
I'm appending data collected in a survey last year. The data was shared with students, but not AFAIK published outside. My personal perception is that cheating is uncommon, and I did not know of anybody I knew doing so. I believe very few people I knew would be open to cheating if approached by a friend. I agree that the administration has no incentive to publicize issues, but I do honestly believe that the issues were few.
With all due respect to Claremont McKenna, their culture is very different. I would not extrapolate from them.
...
There was a survey of student and faculty perceptions of cheating on campus. Unfortunately I don't have details of how this was conducted. Presumably it was anonymous.
In response to : "I believe nearly all HMC Students respect the Honor Code"
Students: Agree: 84% Neutral: 8% Disagree: 8%
Faculty: Agree: 88% Neutral: 5% Disagree: 7%
"Most HMC Students adhere to the Honor Code in their academic work.":
Students: Agree: 92% Neutral: 4% Disagree: 4%
Faculty: Agree: 90% Neutral: 10% Disagree: 0%
"Most HMC Students adhere to the Honor Code in matters unrelated to their academic work.":
Students: Agree: 66% Neutral: 22% Disagree: 12%
Faculty: Agree: 53% Neutral: 33% Disagree: 14%
(For this question, I do not know the number of respondents): Faculty: In the past 3 years, have any of the following Honor Code violations occurred in the classes you teach:
Plagiarism: 18 Cheating: 10 Collaboration: 10 Other: 3
Faculty: On average, how frequently have Honor Code violations come to your attention?":
1/yr: 77% 2-3/yr: 23%
Faculty: Do you currently give take home exams in any of your Core classes"? [Core classes are required for all students].
Yes: 32% No: 42% N/A: 26%
Faculty: Do you currently give take home exams in any of your non-Core classes"?
Yes: 86% No: 14%
Students: "Have you ever violated the honor code?"
No: 80% 1x: 15% 2x: 1% >2x: 4%
Students: "Did you self report?
Yes: 17% No: 83%