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Soviet gamification

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Re: Soviet gamification

#11

Post by alive-or-not »

huhtenberg wrote: post #8

For what it's worth the "socialist competition" was widely regarded as a fake and ultimately laughable construct by pretty much everyone in the country. Sure, there were enthusiastic supporters, but they were few and far between and they weren't actually looked up to by the unwashed gray masses. They were regarded more like people who were really, really proud of their boyscout badges. (edit) Reading other comments -…

That was probably true in the 80s, but from what I read back in the 30s, 40s, 50s the workers in USSR were a lot less cynical. In those days people could very well see the socialist economy improving their standard of living, education, health care, etc.

Re: Soviet gamification

#12

Post by huhtenberg »

alive-or-not wrote: post #10
CleanedStar wrote: post #7

"Of course, the Soviet economy is not widely held up as a model of success." I agree with you. The country went from a civil war and foreign invasion (including by the US, something I'm sure 99% of Americans don't even know) and then 25 years later were invaded by an alliance of Germany, Finland, Italy, Hungary and other countries. Followed by a Cold War against a nuclear armed opponent and its western European allie…

Interesting points. My (limited) understanding is that Sputnik was launched by a rocket designed in Nazi Germany and copied with minimal modifications. I'd say the outsourcing craze we see in the recent years is very similar to the transfer of factories and technologies to USSR and Germany in the period 1929-1939.

Yep, your understanding of Soviet space history is pretty limited. That part you got right.

Re: Soviet gamification

#13

Post by caf »

networked wrote: post #5
alive-or-not wrote: post #2

Author doesn't seem to know exactly how successful the Soviet Union was with this tactic. In four years - 1929 to 1933 - it transformed from an agrarian country, devastated by wars, to world second industrial power. Just a few years later USSR was capable of outproducing in many areas the whole of Europe under fascist control. As a side node gamification drives me mad. IMHO only an idiot would care about made up "ach…

>As a side node gamification drives me mad. IMHO only an idiot would care about made up "achievements". Considering how token economies [1] are generally successful as motivators (HN karma, anyone?) I'd say this has less to do with idiocy and more with the "human nature". BTW, if anyone wants a good, quick introduction to the criticism of gamification I can recommend the Errant Signal video on the subject [2]. [1] ht…

I'd say military decorations are a particularly convincing example.

Re: Soviet gamification

#14

Post by alive-or-not »

huhtenberg wrote: post #12
alive-or-not wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points. My (limited) understanding is that Sputnik was launched by a rocket designed in Nazi Germany and copied with minimal modifications. I'd say the outsourcing craze we see in the recent years is very similar to the transfer of factories and technologies to USSR and Germany in the period 1929-1939.

Yep, your understanding of Soviet space history is pretty limited. That part you got right.

Care to correct me than?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-1_%28missile%29

R-1 was the Russian name for the German V-2, Sputnik was launched by R-7.

Re: Soviet gamification

#15

Post by jiggy2011 »

alive-or-not wrote: post #14
huhtenberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, your understanding of Soviet space history is pretty limited. That part you got right.

Care to correct me than? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-1_%28missile%29 R-1 was the Russian name for the German V-2, Sputnik was launched by R-7.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_1

Re: Soviet gamification

#16

Post by frozenport »

alive-or-not wrote: post #11
huhtenberg wrote: post #8

For what it's worth the "socialist competition" was widely regarded as a fake and ultimately laughable construct by pretty much everyone in the country. Sure, there were enthusiastic supporters, but they were few and far between and they weren't actually looked up to by the unwashed gray masses. They were regarded more like people who were really, really proud of their boyscout badges. (edit) Reading other comments -…

That was probably true in the 80s, but from what I read back in the 30s, 40s, 50s the workers in USSR were a lot less cynical. In those days people could very well see the socialist economy improving their standard of living, education, health care, etc.

In the 30s, 40s, early 50s, workers were a lot more DEAD!

I still have family who remember Stalin's purges, starvation and WW2. The same people say life in the USSR was only reasonable under the later leaders like Brezhnev. Nobody likes Gorbachev, but they would be first to admit that the differences in their lives in the 1940s and 1980s were vast.

Re: Soviet gamification

#17

Post by gngeal »

alive-or-not wrote: post #11
huhtenberg wrote: post #8

For what it's worth the "socialist competition" was widely regarded as a fake and ultimately laughable construct by pretty much everyone in the country. Sure, there were enthusiastic supporters, but they were few and far between and they weren't actually looked up to by the unwashed gray masses. They were regarded more like people who were really, really proud of their boyscout badges. (edit) Reading other comments -…

That was probably true in the 80s, but from what I read back in the 30s, 40s, 50s the workers in USSR were a lot less cynical. In those days people could very well see the socialist economy improving their standard of living, education, health care, etc.

"In those days people could very well see the socialist economy improving their standard of living, education, health care, etc."

That was primarily because the previous regime was terribly bad, not because the new one was terribly good.

Re: Soviet gamification

#18

Post by [deleted] »

CleanedStar wrote: post #7

"Of course, the Soviet economy is not widely held up as a model of success." I agree with you. The country went from a civil war and foreign invasion (including by the US, something I'm sure 99% of Americans don't even know) and then 25 years later were invaded by an alliance of Germany, Finland, Italy, Hungary and other countries. Followed by a Cold War against a nuclear armed opponent and its western European allie…

[deleted]

Re: Soviet gamification

#19

Post by moxie »

frozenport wrote: post #16
alive-or-not wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was probably true in the 80s, but from what I read back in the 30s, 40s, 50s the workers in USSR were a lot less cynical. In those days people could very well see the socialist economy improving their standard of living, education, health care, etc.

In the 30s, 40s, early 50s, workers were a lot more DEAD! I still have family who remember Stalin's purges, starvation and WW2. The same people say life in the USSR was only reasonable under the later leaders like Brezhnev. Nobody likes Gorbachev, but they would be first to admit that the differences in their lives in the 1940s and 1980s were vast.

During the purges of the 30s and 50s, the most dangerous place to be was a member of the central committee. Ordinary workers were not affected by the bulk of the purges (and to some extent did not even realize they were happening), with the notable exception of Jews during weird Stalinst manipulations like the Mingrelian affair.

As recently as 2009, 60% of Russians preferred the Soviet days (with older citizens that number is as high as 80%). And even for eastern bloc states like the Ukraine, 46% of the population regrets the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Re: Soviet gamification

#20

Post by oddx »

nine_k wrote: post #9
CleanedStar wrote: post #7

"Of course, the Soviet economy is not widely held up as a model of success." I agree with you. The country went from a civil war and foreign invasion (including by the US, something I'm sure 99% of Americans don't even know) and then 25 years later were invaded by an alliance of Germany, Finland, Italy, Hungary and other countries. Followed by a Cold War against a nuclear armed opponent and its western European allie…

A former Soviet citizen here. > Yet during the 1930s, when starving veterans were being shot dead in the streets of Washington DC, when unemployment in the US and Europe was over 20%, the Soviet economy was booming. Oh yes. The US and Europe credited the Soviet Union well, and the Soviet Union paid in gold. At the same time, Soviet authorities robbed its own people, partly by putting hundreds of thousands to forced l…

May be it was no best model, but about "hundreds of thousands to forced labor camps"- it was about 1 million people in GULAG before second world war (0.59% of 170 millions population). For modern USA incarceration rate is 0.74%. Are you sure it's better model?

> You want a competition between producers? Have you tried the so-called 'market'?

Market is nice when you have many producers. But as soon as company became 'too big to fail' competition disappearing.

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