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Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

blogs.zdnet.com

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Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#11

Post by PStamatiou »

stcredzero wrote: post #8
gwc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is the jist of the last sentence. However that was clearly not the message the bulk of the post was intending to express: He [Charlie Miller] did mention, in his interview with Ryan Naraine, that Chrome was pretty much in another league. Their 'sandbox' makes it extremely difficult to exploit

Two hikers are running from a grizzly. One of them asks, "Do you really think we can outrun the bear?" The other says, "No, but I think I can outrun you!"

My CS professor told us that before our final exam. :-)

Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#12

Post by briansmith »

tptacek wrote: post #9
briansmith wrote: post #6

What makes the Google Chrome sandbox better than the IE7 sandbox or the IE8 sandbox? AFAICT, they are all using the same techniques.

Chrome is process-per-tab; there's architecturally almost no shared state between two different render contexts. Contrast that with Firefox, where there's a application-layer permeable membrane connecting content-driven code to browser core state.

I understand how process-per-tab protects against cross-domain attacks. In protecting against cross-domain attacks, Chrome's architecture is safer than IE's since IE will often put multiple tabs in the same process. But, I don't think the number of tabs per process has an effect in the ability to prevent exploits of the local system.

The feature of Chrome and IE Protected Mode that protects against local expoits is basically the same. There is a "main" process that has access to the local system (files, registry, other processes). And, there are some "sandboxed" processes that do not have access to the local system except for a communication channel to the main process. Any time these browsers interpret some input from the internet, they do so only in the sandboxed processes. The only way a sandboxed process can access local resources is by asking the main process to give it the local resource through the communication channel. The main process asks the user to approve the request before accessing the local resource on behalf of the sandboxed process. As long as the main process implements its side of this communication channel correctly, there is no way for malicious web content to break out of the sandbox. That is the case whether there is one tab per process or more than one tab per process.

Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#13

Post by stcredzero »

briansmith wrote: post #10
dryicerx wrote: post #7

This is the trend with anything that comes out. The Hack-ability tends to be directly proportional to it's popularity. Nothing has been ever built that was 100% secure (if you did, more power to you). My point is, the the more popular something gets, more minds will be focused on it to break it, and more information be available publicly regarding possible attack vectors, and eventually it will break. Chrome is a new…

I think Chrome and IE are both on track to become proved-secure . I think they are both close to being able to use automatic tools to prove that malware cannot get out of the sandbox without an operating-system exploit. Microsoft seems to be working on a provably-secure micro-kernel for Windows. In a few years they will be able to legitamately claim that privilege escalation is literally impossible without the user's…

How can the user be sure that a program won't cause data loss?

An easy way to do it: never delete anything. This isn't too different than my OS X setup at home with Time Machine. I have exceptions set up for things like my VirtualBox images and movies. A more advanced system that can keep deltas of binary data would be even better. A solution designed for the clueless end-user would have some sort of function that would automatically keep less frequent backups for larger files.

Run out of room? The salesperson talks you into a hard-drive upgrade. HP, Dell, and Apple would be happy about this!

More accurately, never completely delete anything. The system would always keep around at least one version of everything. Yes, this would mean that secure delete is impossible, but this sort of system is for the casual home user. If you need secure delete, use a different system. If you are doing esoteric things with lots of large files, use a different system.

Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#14

Post by briansmith »

stcredzero wrote: post #13
briansmith wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Chrome and IE are both on track to become proved-secure . I think they are both close to being able to use automatic tools to prove that malware cannot get out of the sandbox without an operating-system exploit. Microsoft seems to be working on a provably-secure micro-kernel for Windows. In a few years they will be able to legitamately claim that privilege escalation is literally impossible without the user's…

How can the user be sure that a program won't cause data loss? An easy way to do it: never delete anything. This isn't too different than my OS X setup at home with Time Machine. I have exceptions set up for things like my VirtualBox images and movies. A more advanced system that can keep deltas of binary data would be even better. A solution designed for the clueless end-user would have some sort of function that wo…

That is very similar to what Windows Vista does with "Previous Versions", except "Previous Versions" automatically gets rid of old versions when disk space gets low.

Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#16

Post by tptacek »

briansmith wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is process-per-tab; there's architecturally almost no shared state between two different render contexts. Contrast that with Firefox, where there's a application-layer permeable membrane connecting content-driven code to browser core state.

I understand how process-per-tab protects against cross-domain attacks. In protecting against cross-domain attacks, Chrome's architecture is safer than IE's since IE will often put multiple tabs in the same process. But, I don't think the number of tabs per process has an effect in the ability to prevent exploits of the local system. The feature of Chrome and IE Protected Mode that protects against local expoits is b…

They're different threat models.

Vista Protected Mode (IIRC, it only works on Vista, because of XP's session security flaw) is like privsep SSH. It's primary job is to keep malware from persisting.

On Windows, my understanding is that Chrome Sandboxes do the same thing. But what the process-per-tab model is most notable for is defending against cross-domain attacks. Which, if you ask me --- and I'm a Microsoft booster --- is the more important threat model. Browser-resident malware is where we're headed.

Re: Google Chrome harder to hack than other browsers

#17

Post by mikeryan »

dryicerx wrote: post #7

This is the trend with anything that comes out. The Hack-ability tends to be directly proportional to it's popularity. Nothing has been ever built that was 100% secure (if you did, more power to you). My point is, the the more popular something gets, more minds will be focused on it to break it, and more information be available publicly regarding possible attack vectors, and eventually it will break. Chrome is a new…

Also don't forget features, as software becomes more feature rich it also increases in available holes.
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