Live data from Hacker News

Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

coderslexicon.com

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

#42
What rubbish. Learning maths at school doesn't make everyone go on to become mathematicians... it does however give people the tools to advance their knowledge and productivity in other areas and give a more rounded education.

Hell, In my engineering degree we learn C/C++ and I have coursemates who still can't craft a simple program. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

We should still give people the grounding and chance to learn in the same way we do for maths/biology/art/whatever and we'll discover a lot of hidden talent. It is not as if this will suddenly make Software Engineers ten a penny.

Re: Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

#43
So, all the comments here seem to be disagreeing with the article. Now, I certainly believe that business managers could use a much more thorough understanding of IT and development, with concepts of technical debt and the like, although I'm not so sure that learning to actually code in practice would help in that.

But trying to compare coding with literacy or basic plumbing is ridiculous. Everyone's toilets break and can usually be fixed fairly easily, and everyone derives direct benefit from knowing how to read.

But I can't possibly imagine what benefit my mother, or sister, or cousin, would derive from knowing how to code. They don't want to do it for a living. They don't want to run web sites. Their aren't any programs they need written, that don't exist, that a single person could possibly create, that could even be remotely worth their time to learn how to write, and then write, in comparison with the other things they could be doing.

It would be about as useful to them as a law degree, or knowledge of sewage treatment engineering. Computer coding is a tremendously useful and valuable, but also tremendously esoteric skill.

And I just don't see how computer coding can somehow open your eyes to understanding technology in a way that will deepen your life somehow. If there are important lessons that people should be aware of (like the fragility of code, the dangers of hacking and cyberwarfare, etc.), those are pretty easy to teach without teaching coding itself.

Re: Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

#48

> We need passionate people who are creative and want to learn to DESIGN software in addition to coding. We also need good workers who can scrape together the code to pipe data from one application to another. We need sociologists and detectives who can construct SQL queries. We need scientists and economists who can cobble something together in R. We need physicists and engineers who know their way around MATLAB or…

Do we really need

>artists who can do a little bit of JavaScript when they need to?

In some ways that statement is tautological, so I guess, fine (we need things that we need, got it). But I don't think this really an interesting statement; maybe it's a little provocative but not realistic. How about we have renaissance style artists that also do mechanical engineering? That's great but now you're argument is not about how programming is the special snowflake but that we need to return to a time of intellectualism ... ... However, that argument doesn't really work either because it's not as if renaissance intellectuals were the norm for their societies.

As far as the other examples you cited, there are already people pursuing STEM so I don't really know how fitting the idea of programming solves our societal problems.

Without being too hostile about it; does it really matter if the taxi driver can program? In a real sense, do you think this is really greatly benefiting society? I see it as benefiting society the same, or probably less so, than if the taxi driver understood Sartre, Descartes, or knew the history of Islam.

But then we're just saying "the more educated we all are the better everyone is" to which I say "great, non-controversial statement but so what?" Just being honest.

Re: Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

#49
Let me put it this way: I'm all for one person who's interested to learn coding. Sure, if you wish, even let all this public campaigning and incentives be there. I'm fine with it. I will help this hypothetical guy personally if he comes my way. Nothing wrong here.

But... You (you, with the coding = literacy idea) are seriously overestimating the masses. I'm not sure why, might be due to some bubble effect. I don't live in SV or anything that resembles it. And my view is that even if you decide to go with the coding = literacy analogy, you will run into trouble because most people are not even literate beyond the absolute basics they can get away with. I'm speaking about professionals, and even a certain "majority" of college graduates. I'm speaking about a randomly sampled manager from a medium sized enterprise. Ask this guy to write a single page essay about something he knows about. I'm talking about writing, the kind of literacy we're talking about in the coding = literacy analogy. If you are really in a bubble, you might be surprised that only a minority of people living in the first world can write coherently beyond the length of a twitter update or an SMS. So, I would suggest to find another analogy for your public campaigning if you mean learning coding as in learning to code beyond hello world or fizzbuzz.

Another problem: where are those magical people that want to increase productivity? Most professionals I know don't even work most of the time! And they want to get away with the absolute minimum that can still achieve the maximum possible return. This is basic human behaviour. I don't endorse it, and I don't say this is everyone's standart behaviour, so no need to take offense, but I don't think anyone would argue against that what I posit here holds for the majority. Now, you want these people to learn coding to increase their productivity? Good luck. I'm sincerely all for it, and I will even help in ways that I can, excuse my cynicism.

Re: Why Everyone Should Not Learn To Code

#50

> We need passionate people who are creative and want to learn to DESIGN software in addition to coding. We also need good workers who can scrape together the code to pipe data from one application to another. We need sociologists and detectives who can construct SQL queries. We need scientists and economists who can cobble something together in R. We need physicists and engineers who know their way around MATLAB or…

Yep, all that, plus business people who can write and edit simple spreadsheet macros and people to whom the operation of the programmable thermostat in their house is not a total mystery. Not many people have the talent to become professional photographers, chefs, or musicians. That doesn't mean they shouldn't learn how take non-crappy family pictures, cook an edible meal, or enjoy singing songs with friends.

But why does programming change the world in that sense?

We've had math education for a long time now, you could debate about the quality of it but I'll call you a liar if you couldn't make the debates about programming education, yet we have widespread misunderstandings about many quantitative things, we have had a lot of historical education, yet many people do know basic things in history. I just don't think these code fever is panacea it's made out to be.

Post reply on HN