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How We Treat Pets in America

blog.priceonomics.com

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#31

Soap box time!! -- I walk dogs at a local shelter. There is not a common breed that doesn't find it's way through our doors at some point during the year. Sure, you might not end up with a "certified" purebred that's going to win a dog show (do you really want one of those for your family anyway?), but with almost certainty, I can guarantee that you can find what you're looking for at a local shelter. There is almost…

> There is almost no reason to "buy" a dog

I agree, if we're talking about puppies. There's no reason to buy a puppy. But an adult dog? I adopted an adult dog from a shelter, and I will never do so again.

I realize that the rescue community does its best with the animals, but as an owner of a shelter dog, I really wish somebody had explained to me that the dog you see in the shelter might not actually be the same dog once you take her home. In the course of a few weeks after I adopted her, my laid back, amiable companion had turned into a hyperactive, sometimes-fearful, sometimes-aggressive terror.

My point is that with an adult rescue dog, you are not getting only a dog. You are getting a dog and all of its history. For instance, my dog has a deep fear of manhole covers, tall grass, and a dozen other things. I have no idea why she's afraid, and I never will, because I wasn't there when whatever triggered that fear happened. She's also absolutely terrified of firearms. If I even touch a firearm around her (I've never discharged one around her), she runs away whimpering. I have to preemptively crate her on range days, just to get my guns to the car.

I've been working with her for 2 years, and she's slowly gotten better with some things, but even now she's still afraid of a lot of the same things. And there is absolutely no way I can trust her around children. When my fiance and I get married and want to start having kids, I don't know what will become of her.

All of this to say, I completely understand peoples' hesitancy to adopt an adult dog from a shelter. You can't be sure what you're getting, and while neither can you be sure of what you're getting (in terms of temperament) when you adopt a puppy, at least with a puppy you know that no other messed up human has done bad things to your dog.

Edit: to clarify that I haven't shot my dog...

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one find this kind of cognitive dissonance extremely upsetting and a bit perplexing. People are easily able to compartmentalize their feelings about various animals. This leads to neat little groups - food, pet, science experiment. It's very frustrating to me.

> It's very frustrating to me. Why? We're human beings--all we do is categorize...

Yes, I'm aware of the natural proclivity. That's part of what leads to to racism and stereotyping. We don't shrug those off as just being natural.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225598 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433723 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691849 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3506104 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11202221 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15577502 http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787155 http://www.grca.org/health/bigfour_hypo.html >In g…

No, old-fashioned is not a code word for that specific test. it was the best word I could come with for a more traditional mindset vet. Some vets agree with you and consider it unethical. Many other vets disagree. Haven't read these all yet, but should note: Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Because earlyage gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely gonadectomize…

>Many other vets disagree.

Yes, and many vets recommend horrible things like declawing. Being a vet does not come with any requirement to be moral or ethical, nor to care about animals at all. Notice how many vets refuse to euthanize animals hit by cars and brought to their clinic? Because the $6 matters more to them than the suffering of the animal.

>but should note

Yes, vets do have an unfortunate financial motivation that is often at odds with the best interests of the animals.

>As to your dog, assuming it's adult what does early age neutering have to do with the situation?

He's not an adult, he's 9 months old.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#34

It is worth noting that the campaign to make spaying and neutering required has also done considerable harm. Puppies are often spayed and neutered as young as 6 weeks, despite the numerous health problems associated with the practice. Even the standard 6 months causes significant increases in a number of health problems. We need to stop punishing our pets based on the notion that if we don't get them fixed early, the…

> You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs. Yes, mostly because dogs, in general, can be easily fenced in. Cats, however, are much more wily.

Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#35
> These breeders can raise their dogs in idyllic conditions of sunny farms, financed by the high premium placed on purebreds.

That sounds logical, but from my talking to various breeders it just isn't reality. They claim to barely break even or even lose money, despite charging ~$1000 per dog. Most of them seem to have other income that supplements their hobby.

Good breeders are motivated by love of the breed and not by money (which, to be fair the article pointed out).

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#37
post #30

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

Based on my own past anecdotal experiences, I favor adopting a dog from as young as possible (~8 weeks), to endeavor to have more influence over how it turns out. Most shelter dogs that I've encountered in my area are a year or more in age. Large-scale breeders and shelters are not the only two choices; I adopted my most recent dog from a family on a farm. Perhaps in an ideal world, no more dogs would be born until a…

I'm generally in favor of blaming the consumer. Markets respond to pressures. If there were no market for dogs (especially pure-bred dogs), we wouldn't see so many breeders out there. I'm not giving the breeders any sort of free pass, but I've got to ultimately lay the blame at the foot of the consumer.

As for your own experiences, I can't speak to those. I've had good luck adopting from shelters even over a year. Old dogs can still learn new tricks. And when getting a young dog, there is no guarantee that you're not going to get one with any of various neuroses.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#38

It is worth noting that the campaign to make spaying and neutering required has also done considerable harm. Puppies are often spayed and neutered as young as 6 weeks, despite the numerous health problems associated with the practice. Even the standard 6 months causes significant increases in a number of health problems. We need to stop punishing our pets based on the notion that if we don't get them fixed early, the…

> You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs. Yes, mostly because dogs, in general, can be easily fenced in. Cats, however, are much more wily.

In our case, we have a cat that one of the kids left at home, and she wasn't "fixed". Had her about a year or so. Recently, we had to take care of another cat for a couple weeks (a male, again with all his parts in tact). Didn't even think about it (had a bunch of other things going on at the time). Guess what happened?

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#39

Very happy to see this on HN. I have never understood why people are willing to purchase dogs. Between the conditions of large-scale breeders and the amount of animals waiting in shelters, it's just absurd.

I know it goes against most people, but I bought a dog from a breeder. Basically just to see its parents and how it acted around its litter.

My wife and I adopted a Lab two years earlier from a humane society. When she went through puberty, she started acting "off". As in she'd be playing, stop, have no depth in her eyes, and bite you if you got near her. 40 seconds later she was fine and she didn't even know what happened. She even bit the last trainer when she had one of her "seizures." The rest of the time she did every trick and voice command perfectly. After we that, we decided we had to put her down. We spent probably $2000 on training in the year-ish we had her not including the hours calling universities and whatnot for advice.

After many hours of researching, we found out her dad "might have been" a German Shepherd used in dog fighting that had other issues. That dog was shot like a coyote because it kept on tormenting cattle. Would have been nice to know that ahead of time.

We didn't want to go through that again. So we paid the $800, drove 6 hours, saw our new dog get corrected by its father, and be genuinely rambunctious. Now when we go on vacation people argue for the rights to take care of him instead of saying no way.

It's amazing what knowing the family history can do to your stress levels.

Re: How We Treat Pets in America

#40

Neutering in rats slightly increases lifespan of the animal. If this could be proven in dogs/cats, etc. as a more general biological phenomenon I think it'd be a great selling point for the procedure to new pet owners. Who doesn't want their new pet to live longer? http://www.ratbehavior.org/Neutering.htm

https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/100301g.aspx

"New research on the biology of aging in dogs suggests a link between shortened life expectancy and ovary removal."

"The study, published in the December 2009 issue of the journal Aging Cell, found that Rottweilers that were spayed after they were 6 years old were 4.6 times as likely to reach 13 years of age as were Rottweilers that were spayed at a younger age."

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