Linus posted a NSFW rant about it a few days ago. The story mysteriously went off the HN front page and subsequent submissions of the story went [dead]. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5279531 Rankings graph showing a deep dive. http://hnrankings.info/5279531/ Part of Linus' email: >Guys, this is not a dick-sucking contest. If you want to parse PE binaries, go right ahead. >If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microso…
HN dislikes anything that shows that real people have real emotions. Humour, anger and whatnot have no place here.
Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
101–110 of 147 posts
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it's telling that no other operating system except Windows commonly suffers from this problem. This is an honest question, as this area isn't my specialty, but could this be for the same reason that people used to perpetuate the myth that Macs don't get viruses? Attackers simply target the platform with the largest market share.
Linux servers are far more common than Windows servers, and servers usually have loads of bandwidth making them especially valuable targets for spammers and fraudsters.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#103> What they've told us privately is that as long as no-one comes along with a plausible exploit for Windows based on using a secure boot enabled Linux system, they don't care what we do. I guess we need to hide all those forensic distributions that can modify and access data on a windows machine. To name a few: backtrack, CAINE, and DEFT. If technology can modify and access data, it can also be used in an exploit. So…
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#104I always thought that the secure boot is a very, very, very bad idea. In fact the whole UEFI in general I think it is a clusterfuck of mishmashed random ideas, some good, many bad. What I intend to do personally, is attempt to don't use secure boot. And this all might explain the e-mail I got from Lenovo 10 minutes ago... I asked them for a non-Windows machine. They replied saying that they from now on only manufactu…
In Brazil or anywhere, can you buy a car with the default sound system ripped out and get a refund for it? What about without the default tires, seats or even the engine?
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it's a shit idea from end to end. Any PKI based system is a shit idea unless you are personally in control of the trusted root CA, which in this case you're not. I think that is what Linus is saying. Google for "certificate authority compromised" and you'll see what utter wads of shit for brains this could be entrusted to.
>Any PKI based system is a shit idea unless you are personally in control of the trusted root CA, which in this case you're not With UEFI secure boot, you can delete Microsoft's key and add you own.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Linux servers are far more common than Windows servers, and servers usually have loads of bandwidth making them especially valuable targets for spammers and fraudsters.
Unlike desktops, servers are mostly run by people who have at least some idea of what they're doing.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#107Having read through the entire thread instead of just the expletives, in my opinion it's a rare case of Linux and Greg being totally wrongheaded on the issue. The problem crops up because redhat submitted a pull request to enhance the existing in kernel live inclusion of additional trusted x.509 certificates. Note that this is 100% upstream and live. The pull was to add the ability to extract these x.509 certificates…
Signing something from an untrusted source (Having dealt with having to revoke a bunch of Microsoft signed stuff not too long ago, I assure you Microsoft is not infallible) doesn't buy you a whole lot. If you build a driver yourself and sign it, ok. Actually that's probably the best way, download the nvidia driver, sign it with your own one-time key, and voila, even if someone pulls a Folgers Commercial on your driver, they really can't sign it, they don't even know where the one-time key came from.
For a normal user, the effort to try and hack your own signing mechanism seems like it would be non-trivial. Figuring out how to hack a giant 'trusted' signer is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I would not be suprised if there are more compromised signing authorities right now. Flame was signed with a msft key that was actually not meant to sign code, but for several years, since this key was from msft, people happily loaded and ran flame.
I don't really think it's FUD to say trusting your security to the entity that attracts the most attention is not a great plan.
Your points are good, except I disagree that Linux's only beef is parsing PE files, I think that's really the least of his concerns. Msft could deliver up its keys in any form, it won't solve the insecurity of not knowing if your signer has been breached.
Good security is hard, I think that's the main problem with all of Linus's ideas.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the Germans were pretty concerned about this, too. I could definitely see a lawsuit against them there, considering how "weird" (but usually right) Germany is when it comes to things like these.
I'd love the European Commission to chime in, too.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#109We don't need to argue over UEFI or anything about it. We need to get rid of it, simple as that.
If Intel goes through with this, we need an antitrust case against them and we need Intel broken like Ma Bell.
UEFI must not exist, period.
Re: Torvalds clarifies Linux's Windows 8 Secure Boot position
#110Having read through the entire thread instead of just the expletives, in my opinion it's a rare case of Linux and Greg being totally wrongheaded on the issue. The problem crops up because redhat submitted a pull request to enhance the existing in kernel live inclusion of additional trusted x.509 certificates. Note that this is 100% upstream and live. The pull was to add the ability to extract these x.509 certificates…
If you, as a vendor, want to support secure boot (as a new, optional, extra feature), I think option B (be the CA) is the only right way to do it. If vendors don't like having to do duplicate work then they can cooperate and form a shared organization to be the central Linux CA. Relying on Microsoft to do the signing is not a good idea long term.