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An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

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Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#201

Post by cafard »

doktrin wrote: post #74
djmdjm wrote: post #30

What's remarkable about this is how the poster finds these casual encounters with homelessness "unremarkable". No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. I don't know enough about the causes of this phenomenon in SF to suggest what can be done about it; I'm sure they are complex, multi-factorial and politically fraught, but the level of homelessness in SF and (almost)…

> No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. SF is unique not in the size of the homeless population, but in its distribution. The linked study refers to metropolitan areas (thus including Oakland as part of the SF Bay), but SF ranks 12th in the nation behind Tampa, Seattle & San Jose among others [1] In both DC [21] and to a lesser extent Seattle [8], for instance, yo…

There are plenty of homeless in Washington, and downtown some are fairly aggressive in their panhandling. I'm not aware of them in the suburbs, as mentioned by jeffd703, but then I don't get out Loudoun County much.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#202

Post by geebee »

corwinstephen wrote: post #162
rdouble wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latinos make up the 2nd largest homeless demographic in Los Angeles.

It's very possible I'm off base here. I'm going purely on observation and anecdotal things. Do you happen to have any hard stats off hand? Edit: I looked it up. You're right in that Latinos hold the second highest percentage of homelessness at 33%, but when you consider population size, it sort of becomes irrelevant. Latinos make up 47% of the total population in LA. Blacks make up only 9% however they're a full 50%…

The SF Chron (check the earlier links) distinguishes between "chronic homeless" and "hardcore homeless". Chronic homelessness appears to be more of an economic condition related to poverty. "Hardcore homelessness" is more severe condition, a permanent and very harsh life on the street, often related to addiction and mental illness. You might not even notice the chronic homeless in your day to day life.

Apparently, San Francisco does stand out in the high incidence of hardcore homelessness. Supposedly SF and NY have the same number of "hardcore homeless", even though SF has about 1/10 the population (though any time you get into these ratios, you have to remember that SF is a small geographic region and population within much larger bay area - if you drew a 48 square mile border around an urban core in NY or LA, the numbers probably wouldn't look so dramatically different - my guess is that SF would still look bad, but not by anywhere near this order of magnitude).

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#204

Post by cpeterso »

frozenport wrote: post #137
cpeterso wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think SF is stuck with a perfect storm of "landed gentry" conservatives that don't want to pay for homeless services, sympathetic liberals whose spare change enables drug addicts, civil rights activists that fight city hall to protect people's "right to be homeless", and the so-called "homeless industrial complex." A few years ago, the local PBS station had a TV show about SF's homeless problem. People migrated to…

Sounds interesting, would you happen to have a link?

I scoured the KQED archives, but I can't find a definite match. This show from 2005 might be it, but I'm not sure:

"Hope on the Street" http://www.kqed.org/w/hope/

btw, I must note that was impressed at how much old web content KQED has archived!

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#205

Post by dotBen »

gcb0 wrote: post #129
hristov wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main cause is pretty simple. The police in San Francisco just do not bother them in certain neighborhoods. In most other cities police routinely pick up the homeless and dump them some place far. So the absence of homeless is usually not a sign of better humanity, it is usually a sign of cruelty. This is especially the case in the US. There are other countries where they have better treatment for poverty and ment…

> homeless > police you are doing it wrong. very wrong, if you think that's a police problem. recently the former, most retarded, mayor of Sao Paulo used police on the city's 'tenderloin' (called cracoloandia ...literal translation to crack-land... you get the idea) it resulted in a city wide chaos as those figures, usually restricted geographically and living with their own morals and codes, scattered all over the p…

re-read the parent comment, I think you're both actually in agreement.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#206

Post by SilasX »

bitcartel wrote: post #79
irollboozers wrote: post #33

I don't know what it is, but posts like this make me feel like HN is waking up and realizing the world isn't just 'social networks for dogs', and that there are real social problems out there needing to be fixed. There is a trend happening. This post is powerful because it's recognition. The act was powerful because it was recognition, which then led to real action. If judging by recent posts on HN, hopefully posts l…

I posted this a few months ago. Worth watching. VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-k... San Francisco is the most expensive place in America to find a home, but that doesn’t deter the 400,000 people coming each year to the Bay Area in search of a new home and a new life. Eleven-year-old Sera, her sister and her mother moved to San Francisco in 2009. But when the economy collapsed, her m…

Can't edit my previous post, but here the reddit discussion of it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/13k2sm/growing...

Notice how many posters go from "I'm indignantly concerned about the poor in San Francisco" to "How dare you suggest there are significantly less expensive ways to provide them the same benefits" ... and which way the voting skews on that issue.

Edit: I love this part:

>After five months in a shelter and more than a year in transitional housing, the family has moved to a one-room rent-subsidized apartment in the Tenderloin — a neighborhood synonymous with drugs and violence

Gee, you don't think subsidizing long-term non-earners in the same area has anything to do with the deteriorating conditions? Nah, it couldn't be. Any time now, these buildings on the world's most valuable real estate, stocked with people who can't find entry level work, will blossom into another Marina or Nob Hill ... just a few more dollars, and we'll be there!

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#207

Post by doktrin »

cafard wrote: post #201
doktrin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. SF is unique not in the size of the homeless population, but in its distribution. The linked study refers to metropolitan areas (thus including Oakland as part of the SF Bay), but SF ranks 12th in the nation behind Tampa, Seattle & San Jose among others [1] In both DC [21] and to a lesser extent Seattle [8], for instance, yo…

There are plenty of homeless in Washington, and downtown some are fairly aggressive in their panhandling. I'm not aware of them in the suburbs, as mentioned by jeffd703, but then I don't get out Loudoun County much.

There are plenty of homeless in DC, but the vast majority are well out of sight in major business and residential districts. It's in part a "virtue" of the intense economic (and racial) segregation in the district.

I was born and raised in DC and have lived there for the last 6 years, working and living downtown. Of course there are homeless people (as opposed to the bizarrely antiseptic Palo Alto, for instance), but the level of visible homelessness is not in the same zip code (let alone ballpark) as SF. Honestly, it's not even close.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#208

Post by Torgo »

jameslevy wrote: post #31

I just gave a slice of chocolate cake to a homeless man on University Ave. in Palo Alto today. A man who has nothing except for a slice of fancy cake. Just a couple blocks from Palantir, where Facebook was a few years ago.

There used to be an old guy camping out behind a building, near where I worked. I started talking to him and offered to buy him food for which he was grateful. He never asked for money, he was happy to get a sandwich and a large bottle of water so he'd have something to take his numerous pills from the VA with. He told me, after I inquired more about him that he was a Vietnam vet among other things. I know this is a cliche, but it wasn't information he volunteered out of the blue. He was my dad's age and I believed him. The last time I saw him he shook my hand and thanked me. I remember his hands were enormous and the skin was hard like rock.

I don't have a reason for sharing this other than your post reminded me of him.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#209

Post by JeremyStein »

njoubert wrote: post #84
rosser wrote: post #11

This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food , however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). Yo…

I used to subscribe to this idea as well, until a friend of mine told me this: "Have you thought of the fact that you're enabling people to be homeless, thereby making the problem worse rather than better?". This really struck me, since I agreed... I'd rather work on the causes than the symptoms.

If their only other option is to pull themselves together and get a job, then I suppose that's true. It seems unlikely.

Don't use this as an excuse to do nothing. Be smart, but be compassionate.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#210

Post by CrankyPants »

akaru wrote: post #122
rosser wrote: post #11

This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food , however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). Yo…

I think a lot of beggars do it not just for the money, but because they like interacting with people. So it's good to acknowledge them. Nothing wrong with offering some food if it's done in a way that gives the person some good interaction. And, anyone could get tired of eating in the same places, so it can be a treat. But money should absolutely never be given. My technique, instead of lying and saying "I don't have…

"I can't help you."

I'm not sure that's entirely true, either. Not judging, just saying.

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