Why are there not more freelance testers out there? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#31

Post by philk10 » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:17 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #29

I don't know if uTest is still around, but they attempted to fill a similar niche. If you are in a testing lead position, then you know that an enormous amount of contracting is arranged via recruiters to fill this need also. I think the reasons it's really hard for freelance testing communities to get traction are 1. real or perceived lack of return - you have a 2-3 month engagement and realistically the first month…

Dont want to do UTest marketing and I have reservations about them but they are still around and Forbes made them their 8th most promising company in USA so there is some need they are filling - http://blog.utest.com/forbes-names-utest-8th-most-promising-...

You make some good points which I'd agree with

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#32

Post by scott_w » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:24 PM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #22

scott_w wrote: post #18

From my personal experience, I wouldn't use a freelance tester because they won't understand the system well enough to provide value for money. The most valuable testing is that which exposes your lack of understanding of what the system should do. These also usually require the most extensive rewrites, so you definitely want them as early as possible. Unfortunately, they also require the most extensive understanding…

That's the same argument for not hiring freelance developers or project managers. And IMHO it leads to lazy coupling of software systems and services, a system that has to be built and tested by different or changing groups has to have much much better scope and decoupling. In short, if you have small (micro) services, they are easy to build and easier to test.

I disagree. With good testing discipline, you can bring in freelance developers. Developers have the luck of not needing 100% understanding, as this is grown through the writing of code.

Testing, on the other hand, is a simulation of how your system responds to user input, and how your users respond to the system's outputs.

If your tester can't simulate a user, then you can make your services as micro as you like - it'll make no difference when you get the phone call saying the system doesn't work as expected.

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#33

Post by wh-uws » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:25 PM UTC

3am wrote: post #29

I don't know if uTest is still around, but they attempted to fill a similar niche. If you are in a testing lead position, then you know that an enormous amount of contracting is arranged via recruiters to fill this need also. I think the reasons it's really hard for freelance testing communities to get traction are 1. real or perceived lack of return - you have a 2-3 month engagement and realistically the first month…

Also I feel like smaller shops that do test would rather write their own automated tests (we are all developers after all) until they get enough traction to afford a fulltime tester

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#34

Post by PaulHoule » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:28 PM UTC

I'd say the psychology and politics of testing are different from other things, really quite strange.

It most white collar work, there is strong pressure to tell people what they want to hear. Well, it makes me very happy to get a clean bill of health from a tester, but if I was expecting that to happen, I wouldn't need a tester.

Testing takes a kind of special discipline that the average office worker doesn't have. Whenever I've been an organization that has tried to press ordinary people into a tester role, it's always been highly ineffective.

That said, there isn't one formula to make a good tester. Some testers I know are very systematic, they belong to quality control associations, others are expert in project management, requirements, etc. On the other hand, one of the best testers I worked with had bombed out of every other job we gave him because he was always able to screw up anything we gave him. As a tester, he was great, because if he couldn't break it, nobody else could.

All of these things, I think, point to a need to a longer-term relationship with a tester than you're going to get in a freelance situation.

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#35

Post by kenjackson » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:29 PM UTC

There is one niche area of testing where it is more common... security testing.

Testing in this space is often more a function of the technology stack than the industry of the client. This allows security test companies to build up great expertise without knowing anything about the client's specific app or industry.

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#36

Post by 3am » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:29 PM UTC

philk10 wrote: post #31

3am wrote: post #29

I don't know if uTest is still around, but they attempted to fill a similar niche. If you are in a testing lead position, then you know that an enormous amount of contracting is arranged via recruiters to fill this need also. I think the reasons it's really hard for freelance testing communities to get traction are 1. real or perceived lack of return - you have a 2-3 month engagement and realistically the first month…

Dont want to do UTest marketing and I have reservations about them but they are still around and Forbes made them their 8th most promising company in USA so there is some need they are filling - http://blog.utest.com/forbes-names-utest-8th-most-promising-... You make some good points which I'd agree with

I signed up with uTest a while ago and have never done anything else with them. I'm generally underwhelmed. Seems much more geared for crowdsourcing a testing effort, which - with all due respect to innovative business models - seems less than optimal for doing anything other than low level manual testing.

If I ever went independent (or engaged a freelancer), I'd expect an LLC/s-corp with a professional online presence, reference sheets, sample work, and slighly better than LegalZoom-grade contract templates. Consider it my smoke test of potential partners :)

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#37

Post by 3am » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:33 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #35

There is one niche area of testing where it is more common... security testing. Testing in this space is often more a function of the technology stack than the industry of the client. This allows security test companies to build up great expertise without knowing anything about the client's specific app or industry.

I wouldn't even consider penetration/security testing to be in the same field. My experience in the traditional QA areas is that in order of likelihood to freelance are performance testers, automation/development testers, and finally manual testers.

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#38

Post by mgkimsal » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:39 PM UTC

bpatrianakos wrote: post #21

I think there's much more to it than what the post says. It seems the author is looking at the freelance testing industry (is 'industry' the right word here?) through rose colored glasses. Freelance web designers and SEOs are everywhere because you don't need any experience and often times don't even require any actual skill to do the job. All you need to know is how to repeat the whole "Social media marketing your b…

you're very rarely going to 'make' someone money - you're going to save them money. A well-tested app doesn't necessarily out-sell the competition if the competition gets a better distribution deal through 'good old boys' networking. Demonstrably bad software often becomes dominant in specific niches, and people put up with the bugs, because "it's what everyone uses".

Your well-tested software still has a huge marketing battle and possibly integration issues to replace incumbents, regardless of how many bugs they have. You end up needing to create a negative campaign about the headaches and hassles of using XYZ, and that you don't have those issues (because it's well-tested, but you generally can't promote that to most people, as it's 'too technical').

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#39

Post by Jmshabangu » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:44 PM UTC

One of the reason is that people are scared to freelance for a month full time, and the next month not getting any job the next month, In SA we dont have lots of companies that are looking for freelancer.I believe its always good for a company to get new tester that can produce quality assurance into their systems.

Re: Why are there not more freelance testers out there?

#40

Post by ssong » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 4:49 PM UTC

bpatrianakos wrote: post #21

I think there's much more to it than what the post says. It seems the author is looking at the freelance testing industry (is 'industry' the right word here?) through rose colored glasses. Freelance web designers and SEOs are everywhere because you don't need any experience and often times don't even require any actual skill to do the job. All you need to know is how to repeat the whole "Social media marketing your b…

I think you make a great point about perceived value of testing vs SEO/design. However, with the increased proliferation of downloading software through app stores, which favors apps with better reviews/ratings, the perceived value of testing should increase. For example, take a look at apps with mixed or low ratings on the AppStore and most of them will contain complaints about bugs in the app.

(random point + small shameless plug: I founded http://www.testelf.com as flat priced testing service for iOS apps)