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An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

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Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#191

Post by feralmoan »

acchow wrote: post #185
corwinstephen wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe this based purely on having heard it all my life. But a friend of mine recently made an interesting point: he asked me what race homeless people are. My answer (at least here in LA) was that they're almost unanimously black or white. Never Asian. Never indian. Rarely Mexican. I countered that it could be due to Asian and Mexican cultures being more culturally inclined to take care of their own, but…

Come to think of it, I've never met a homeless Asian on Indian before. I see plenty of Asians working their asses off in shitty conditions in chinatowns to feed their kids so they can go off to college some day. You're right, it does make you think.

There's a heap in tenderloin and heading down 6th into soma, they get dragged into the shitty sweat shops and fence canned food for cash.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#192

Post by nopassrecover »

drstewart wrote: post #109
nopassrecover wrote: post #103

From a non-American perspective, the Tenderloin and SF's poverty generally is baffling. As a caveat, I realise there are contributing factors to SF poverty (homeless from other states) - this is more about the personal experience. I haven't traveled a lot (~18 countries) but I've not encountered any poverty in a first-world city that is comparable to SF. Sure there are homeless in other cities (e.g. Rome's beggars) b…

That's because it's a not a no-go zone. Maybe if you are extremely sheltered, which it sounds like you may be?

Haha I definitely spent a lot of time in and around the TL. I meant more from the perspective of every local and police officer telling me "avoid the TL, don't even walk through there".

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#193

Post by mml »

cpressey wrote: post #182
frozenport wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a West Coast thing?

I think you see more homeless on the west coast because it's a little easier to make it through the winter without consistent shelter there. (Compared to, say, Minneapolis.) I haven't actually compared against other places on the continent that have year-round temperate climate, so this is just conjecture.

I've always wondered when the nigh indestructible homeless of the frozen north might some day migrate to san francisco and take over.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#194

Post by chrisdevereux »

corwinstephen wrote: post #142
sebastianmarr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most homeless are mentally ill to some extent I'd love to see some numbers on that.

I used to believe this based purely on having heard it all my life. But a friend of mine recently made an interesting point: he asked me what race homeless people are. My answer (at least here in LA) was that they're almost unanimously black or white. Never Asian. Never indian. Rarely Mexican. I countered that it could be due to Asian and Mexican cultures being more culturally inclined to take care of their own, but…

When you see somebody who looks deshevalled, what leads you to decide that they're homeless?

Stereotypes about their ethnicity will probably be a a factor.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#195

Post by notdonspaulding »

fishtoaster wrote: post #158
rosser wrote: post #11

This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food , however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). Yo…

If you're trying to maximize the good your dollar can do, you're probably better off giving to a charitable organization. A thrifty homeless guy might be able to feed himself for $2, but the cost of a stomach full of soup, bought in bulk and prepared by volunteers, is likely to be considerably less.

This is good advice.

My church supports a food pantry that prepares meal packets for malnourished people around the world. Boil a few cups of water, mix in this bag, and you have a meal for 6 people that can sustain them for a day.

Total cost? $0.50

I'm from IL, but I'd be willing to wager there's nowhere in SF a homeless person can buy a single meal for a single person with two quarters.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't buy the guy a sandwich. There's a value to that person's life that makes it worth the cost at much higher prices. It's just that, in today's world anyway, you don't have to spend all that much to make a difference.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#196

Post by JabavuAdams »

xentronium wrote: post #138

If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so? Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets?

> If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so?

Probably, but why would you risk hiring them? The fact that they're homeless speaks to a lack of self-control. Even a perfectly healthy person who becomes homeless will get at least a bit messed up due to stress.

> Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets?

I've wondered this. We need secular monasteries, not just retreats for the wealthy. On the other hand, you can't really use your own motivations to understand why people are homeless. If they were thinking clearly and had a support network of friends / family that they weren't ashamed to reach out to, then they wouldn't be homeless.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#198

Post by nahname »

staunch wrote: post #156
nahname wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't spend much time in the rest of LA, but I was in westwood for 8 months in 2011. There was less than the tenderloin, but most of the streets with shops had a homeless on every corner. I would walk by 5-10 on my way to grab lunch or dinner.

You are exaggerating. I live in Westwood, have lived in the area for 15 years. Also spent quite a bit of time in SF. There is absolutely no comparison between the two places. Even in Westwood Village you could go months without being hit up by a homeless person for change. Now, maybe you were in a hot spot where a few hang out regularly, but they are not everywhere by any stretch of the imagination. They're also noth…

I said that there were less and I would agree the ones in SF are more aggressive. I fail to see why there needs to be a distinction between 20 homeless on a block and 10. If you have 10 homeless living in your block, you have a problem.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#199

Post by dclowd9901 »

cantbecool wrote: post #65
dclowd9901 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local law enforcement has told us that, off the books, many East coast cities have actually paid to fly their homeless out of their areas into other parts of the country, California (namely San Francisco) because of their homeless-friendliness. People wonder what happened to all the crime and homeless in NYC? They were flown out west.

Citation definitely needed. I don't see how cities would pay thousands of dollars to fly the homeless out of town. Most of the time they are mentally ill, and simply don't have the financial resources to get better. I'm not of perfect mental health, but I have the resources and the support network to make myself normal, where as the less fortunate do not. I know this is completely off topic, but everyone has I just d…

Maybe not flown, but could certainly have been bused, and how much exactly do you think it costs to provide benefits to homeless on a per capita basis? I'm not saying it's true. It's only what I've heard, and the economics of it work out, even if they were flown.

For what it's worth, the plane ticket seems suspect to me too, as you usually require an ID to fly, which most homeless are without.

I believe the solution to the homeless problem lies somewhere between a mental institution and a halfway house. A place where the homeless can receive ongoing care in a safe but controlled environment. But as a sacrifice, they lose freedom. These people need care and help, but some of them can also present a danger to society. That's the reality of it. I don't think people mind too much a person asking for a bit of help on the street, but when they accost you, they need to be managed.

Of course, if someone was willing to take them in and assume full responsibility for them, that'd be even better.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#200

Post by Pinatubo »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #199
cantbecool wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation definitely needed. I don't see how cities would pay thousands of dollars to fly the homeless out of town. Most of the time they are mentally ill, and simply don't have the financial resources to get better. I'm not of perfect mental health, but I have the resources and the support network to make myself normal, where as the less fortunate do not. I know this is completely off topic, but everyone has I just d…

Maybe not flown, but could certainly have been bused, and how much exactly do you think it costs to provide benefits to homeless on a per capita basis? I'm not saying it's true. It's only what I've heard, and the economics of it work out, even if they were flown. For what it's worth, the plane ticket seems suspect to me too, as you usually require an ID to fly, which most homeless are without. I believe the solution…

Several years ago I sat next to a homeless guy on a Southwest flight from Burbank to the East Coast. He told me he had just been released from prison, and California was paying for the ticket to fly him out to Rhode Island to live with his son. This might have more to do with prison than homelessness, though.
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