An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin • Hacker News Board

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#151

Post by pud » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:29 AM UTC

arcatek wrote: post #94

geebee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the mid-90s, when I lived in New York, panhandlers would follow me several blocks while negotiating for change (you got tokens? I take subway tokens!). In Paris in the mid 80s, the same thing happened constantly in the metro station. Panhandlers would also come up to you while you were stuck in traffic, ask you to roll down your window, and try to bum money off you. It was constant. I was punched by a bum in Dubli…

As a parisian currently living at Montreal, there is a huge difference between the two mentalities. There is homeless people at Montreal too, but .. well .. most of them are civil : they don't try to annoy you to get money (some of them even say "Have a nice day" when I decline). One of the thing which surprised me when I first used the montreal subway was that the 'musicians' were actually real musicians, played onl…

Street musicians != homeless people.

The art of "busking" has a long history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#152

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:30 AM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #136

bcantrill wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a glimpse into San Francisco's hardcore homeless, read this excellent Chronicle series from 2003: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/SHAME-OF-THE-CITY-HOMELES... This problem is in no way unique to San Francisco; our engineering team has offices in San Francisco, Seattle (Pioneer Square) and Vancouver (Gastown) -- and we can collectively report that there are large, hardcore homeless populations in all th…

Is it a West Coast thing?

[deleted]

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#153

Post by jcr » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:31 AM UTC

To the author, Jonathan Baudanza (jbaudanza), helping others doesn't make you a sucker, in fact, the opposite is true; helping others makes your life rich. Thank you for buying him a sandwich.

And before the peanut gallery does it's usual thing, I've spent a few years as a volunteer for a non-profit dedicated to assisting the victims of fraud. I know better than most how many greedy and deceptive people are out there trying to take advantage of others. Even with all the deceptive malice I've seen, I still say that giving and helping makes life rich.

I have no idea how to make a meaningful and lasting change for all of the homeless people, and yes, this makes me sad, both their situation, and my ineptitude. I can't help them all, but I try take solace in the small victories. Your act of kindness is one such victory. A hungry person got something to eat. You made a difference.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#154

Post by gtani » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:33 AM UTC

I occasionally did the same. I would buy a couple big boxes of Cliff Bars at Costco and give away the flavors that I didn't like. I think if you're not going to help the Glide Memorial or St Anthony's or one of those, giving Cliff bars is tne next best thing (protein, B vitamins, solid sustenance)

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#155

Post by caublestone » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:43 AM UTC

I find it appalling that the apriori assumption to this conversation is that all homeless people are suffering on accident. Many homeless suffer from mental illness and drug addiction. These are problems that transcend being homeless and should be looked at carefully. However, I spoke with a few homeless in the Tenderloin (where I live) and the common amswer to the question "Why do you live here?" is "It feels safe. It feels like home"

I guess I'm just asking people in this discussion to stop and talk with homeless people sometime. As many people that have gone through depression know, beinf acknowledged is one of the most important feelings when you believe you have been sequestered to a lower level.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#156

Post by staunch » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:45 AM UTC

nahname wrote: post #87

neoveller wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Westwood gotten worse since I graduated UCLA in 2010? By my memory, there were only several decipherably-homeless individuals wandering about. In most cases, they would talk at me, mumbling, and didn't actually talk TO me in a real attempt to get anything. I would even say downtown Palo Alto is worse than Westwood. The rest of LA is pretty bad, but Westwood was a far cry away from any of it.

Didn't spend much time in the rest of LA, but I was in westwood for 8 months in 2011. There was less than the tenderloin, but most of the streets with shops had a homeless on every corner. I would walk by 5-10 on my way to grab lunch or dinner.

You are exaggerating. I live in Westwood, have lived in the area for 15 years. Also spent quite a bit of time in SF.

There is absolutely no comparison between the two places. Even in Westwood Village you could go months without being hit up by a homeless person for change. Now, maybe you were in a hot spot where a few hang out regularly, but they are not everywhere by any stretch of the imagination. They're also nothing like the aggressive homeless population in SF. The police here are very quick to crackdown on any kind of aggressiveness.

If you lived in rural Idaho I could see how you might think Westwood had a lot of homeless people -- anyone from SF would think there were none.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#157

Post by jyturley » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:47 AM UTC

sebastianmarr wrote: post #139

hristov wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main cause is pretty simple. The police in San Francisco just do not bother them in certain neighborhoods. In most other cities police routinely pick up the homeless and dump them some place far. So the absence of homeless is usually not a sign of better humanity, it is usually a sign of cruelty. This is especially the case in the US. There are other countries where they have better treatment for poverty and ment…

most homeless are mentally ill to some extent I'd love to see some numbers on that.

There is some truth to this: "According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness."[1]

Mental disorders prevent people from carrying out essential aspects of daily life, such as self-care, household management and interpersonal relationships. Homeless people with mental disorders remain homeless for longer and have less contact with family and friends. Any type of help from friends and family can be misinterpreted and further pushed towards the cycle of poverty.

[1]http://tinyurl.com/bwg38ab - National Coalition of Homelessness, July 2009

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#158

Post by fishtoaster » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 8:58 AM UTC

rosser wrote: post #11

This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food , however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). Yo…

If you're trying to maximize the good your dollar can do, you're probably better off giving to a charitable organization. A thrifty homeless guy might be able to feed himself for $2, but the cost of a stomach full of soup, bought in bulk and prepared by volunteers, is likely to be considerably less.

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#159

Post by entelarust » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:01 AM UTC

deathchill wrote: post #69

djmdjm wrote: post #30

What's remarkable about this is how the poster finds these casual encounters with homelessness "unremarkable". No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. I don't know enough about the causes of this phenomenon in SF to suggest what can be done about it; I'm sure they are complex, multi-factorial and politically fraught, but the level of homelessness in SF and (almost)…

I didn't notice the homelessness to be nearly as bad as Vancouver when I visited SF in 2011. Maybe we missed it, but we stayed in a hostel on Mason Street and walked around a fair bit. Here's a picture from East Hastings Street in Vancouver: http://jamesdanderfer.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Ea... This is what that spot looks like every day, except the lines of homeless stretch much further then the picture sh…

I remember visiting vancouver and found myself walking down that street. I was like WTF is going on

Re: An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

#160

Post by kalleboo » Thu, Feb 28, 2013, 9:06 AM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #36

kjackson2012 wrote: post #25

At the Safeway where I live, there are nuns that stand outside with a grocery list of food they ask people to donate for them. I didn't know if they were really nuns so I asked the cashier, and they confirmed it, so it made it a lot easier for me to go ahead and donate food. They make food for the homeless and the donation goes straight into feeding these poor people so it's a lot better than giving food or money dir…

I liked the sentence in original post, "Maybe it was because we had something in common: we both wanted a sandwich. Except that I was actually going to get one. I can have as many sandwiches from Subway as I want." Sometimes what I've got in common with a homeless panhandler is that we both want a beer. I use some portion of MY money for drugs (including beer), I don't see why it should bother me if a homeless person…

There's a difference when you're giving an addict drugs, it's not longer a nice gesture. Think of it like offering a drink to someone at AA - you're going to send them back into the dark hole.