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Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

arstechnica.com

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Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#41

Post by derrida »

wolfpackk wrote: post #34
glesica wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says to me that there is a large amount of speculation. As a currency, Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions (which are usually pretty inefficient anyway). Would you use dollars if the value of a dollar could change by hundreds of percentage points in a few months? No one would.

high volatility is natural for all new currencies, as volume continues to increase then volatility will decrease.

I was wondering what your reasoning behind this was. Do you have any past examples to support this assertion? Or do you base this position on some prior principles?

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#42

Post by glesica »

eof wrote: post #38
glesica wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says to me that there is a large amount of speculation. As a currency, Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions (which are usually pretty inefficient anyway). Would you use dollars if the value of a dollar could change by hundreds of percentage points in a few months? No one would.

Well your logic is obviously flawed, because people do use bitcoins for transactions and they have changed by hundreds of percentage points. "No one" is patently false. Besides, illicit transactions are still transactions. And.. you are just plain wrong. Bitcoin is also useful for buying many completely legal things. Including a VPN that can't be linked to your identity. (Illicit you say? What about a journalist in a…

Illicit plus grey market and a few special cases. Fine, you win the Pedant's Prize for nitpicking. The point is that they don't make a good general-purpose currency. Just because they're awesome for buying drugs and secret VPNs doesn't mean very much in the grand scheme of things (most transactions, at least in the developed world, do not take place in the grey market).

Also, just because some people do something doesn't mean that there aren't strong incentives against doing that thing, and doesn't make a statement such as "people don't do that" false. It just means that there are exceptions, but when the exceptions don't affect the point it is common to ignore the exceptions in general conversation.

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#44

Post by downandout »

kjackson2012 wrote: post #39
downandout wrote: post #19

The fact that Bitcoin has flourished despite numerous high profile incidents of theft and fraud, the relative difficulty associated with buying and selling them, and the rather unsavory nature of many of its most popular uses today, is a testament to its long-term viability as a currency. The Bitcoin ecosystem has a long way to go before it is considered mainstream, but I believe its long-term success is almost inevi…

A rising price does not imply long-term viability. A stable price does. For long term viability, people can't just be buying and selling it, they should be transacting with it. It seems like the most active form of Bitcoin use that I've seen is trading. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a double-edged sword, as people learned last year. Once more and more regular people actually start using it for real purcha…

You are correct that a rising price does not necessarily imply long-term viability. It indicates a sharp increase in demand. In Bitcoin's case, I believe demand is rising because of fundamental advantages it has over other forms of virtual currency that won't soon be rivaled. It enables new business models and transactions that would not have otherwise occurred (in many cases, for legal reasons). For this reason, I believe that demand (and resulting prices) will continue to rise.

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#45

Post by rishimoko »

glesica wrote: post #30
downandout wrote: post #19

The fact that Bitcoin has flourished despite numerous high profile incidents of theft and fraud, the relative difficulty associated with buying and selling them, and the rather unsavory nature of many of its most popular uses today, is a testament to its long-term viability as a currency. The Bitcoin ecosystem has a long way to go before it is considered mainstream, but I believe its long-term success is almost inevi…

It says to me that there is a large amount of speculation. As a currency, Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions (which are usually pretty inefficient anyway). Would you use dollars if the value of a dollar could change by hundreds of percentage points in a few months? No one would.

> Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions

I'd never spend my bitcoins on drugs or gambling. That's what the rapidly devaluing dollar is for. Recall that the US dollar is Narco Currency #1 on the planet.

Bitcoins are useful as leverage due to their rapidly expanding (and sometimes deflating) value. I bought my first bitcoins for ~$3 two years ago and held them, even through the first spike and afterwards. I bought more btc at $5-12 as they were floating along last year.

I recently traded some of my btc for hard assets, gold and silver. I then sold some of the gold to a friend and bought more bitcoins.

Useless? No, Bitcoin is a very useful tool. It's the email of money.

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#46

Post by mayneack »

glesica wrote: post #42
eof wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your logic is obviously flawed, because people do use bitcoins for transactions and they have changed by hundreds of percentage points. "No one" is patently false. Besides, illicit transactions are still transactions. And.. you are just plain wrong. Bitcoin is also useful for buying many completely legal things. Including a VPN that can't be linked to your identity. (Illicit you say? What about a journalist in a…

Illicit plus grey market and a few special cases. Fine, you win the Pedant's Prize for nitpicking. The point is that they don't make a good general-purpose currency. Just because they're awesome for buying drugs and secret VPNs doesn't mean very much in the grand scheme of things (most transactions, at least in the developed world, do not take place in the grey market). Also, just because some people do something doe…

Vpns are a gray market? Does not wanting my car searched imply that I have illegal things in it?

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#47

Post by tomkarlo »

fourstar wrote: post #23

Can someone tell me if I should invest in this right now or not or did I miss the boat and I should just move on?

As a general rule, if you don't know the answer to this question, you shouldn't invest. Unless you can come up with a solid reason for why a particular asset should provide a long-term return (net income, interest, or the correction of a current undervaluation) the best you can really do is speculate, and you mostly likely don't have a large enough asset base to make speculating worthwhile (since you should only use a small fraction of your investment holdings.) If you take a whole bunch of your net worth and put it in, then you're just gambling, not investing, the same as if you went into the FX or commodities market and bought a bunch of paper hoping it will rise.

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#48

Post by shredfvz »

glesica wrote: post #42
eof wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your logic is obviously flawed, because people do use bitcoins for transactions and they have changed by hundreds of percentage points. "No one" is patently false. Besides, illicit transactions are still transactions. And.. you are just plain wrong. Bitcoin is also useful for buying many completely legal things. Including a VPN that can't be linked to your identity. (Illicit you say? What about a journalist in a…

Illicit plus grey market and a few special cases. Fine, you win the Pedant's Prize for nitpicking. The point is that they don't make a good general-purpose currency. Just because they're awesome for buying drugs and secret VPNs doesn't mean very much in the grand scheme of things (most transactions, at least in the developed world, do not take place in the grey market). Also, just because some people do something doe…

Money is ultimately just a standardized indicator of wealth with no intrinsic value on its own, a definition shared by both USD and BTC. The downside of USD being that it can be counterfeited, illegally by unscrupulous individuals or legally by the Federal Reserve (see: QE Infinity).

Regrettably, it's still super common for people to turn up their noses in disgust, claiming "Bitcoin Boogey Man, oh noezzz"!

I'm sorry, does the USD somehow not come with a Boogey Man? Because last I checked HSBC was caught with their pants down directly funding terrorism through shady business practices, Bernie Madoff is still in prison for running a giant Ponzi, the illegal narcotics trade is done mostly in USD, plus you have money laundering, and just about every crime conceivable being carried out in USD.

But wait, the Bitcoin Boogeyman!!!

Everyone come to look!

The USD is dirtier than Bitcoin by several orders of magnitude. It's been taking a full out mudbath every day of its life for the past several decades. It's just that the USD is all people know, so they assume it's squeaky clean, because how could it not be squeaky clean??

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#49

Post by laumars »

mayneack wrote: post #46
glesica wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illicit plus grey market and a few special cases. Fine, you win the Pedant's Prize for nitpicking. The point is that they don't make a good general-purpose currency. Just because they're awesome for buying drugs and secret VPNs doesn't mean very much in the grand scheme of things (most transactions, at least in the developed world, do not take place in the grey market). Also, just because some people do something doe…

Vpns are a gray market? Does not wanting my car searched imply that I have illegal things in it?

Bad analogy as bitcoins wouldn't stop your VPN host from being searched.

In fact, if we're completely honest, paying for a VPN with bitcoins doesn't mean your identity is hidden anyway. All it would take is one connection record in one log file and you're exposed.

Re: Bitcoin reaches an all-time trading high of over $33

#50

Post by laumars »

rishimoko wrote: post #45
glesica wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says to me that there is a large amount of speculation. As a currency, Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions (which are usually pretty inefficient anyway). Would you use dollars if the value of a dollar could change by hundreds of percentage points in a few months? No one would.

> Bitcoin is basically useless except for illicit transactions I'd never spend my bitcoins on drugs or gambling. That's what the rapidly devaluing dollar is for. Recall that the US dollar is Narco Currency #1 on the planet. Bitcoins are useful as leverage due to their rapidly expanding (and sometimes deflating) value. I bought my first bitcoins for ~$3 two years ago and held them, even through the first spike and aft…

> Bitcoin is a very useful tool. It's the email of money.

I hope not because email should have been replaced a decade ago (no native end-to-end nor encryption. Node-to-node encryption (eg SSL) isn't standard let along the default, no native support for binary objects and base64 MIME increases files sizes by ~30%, and the mess of plain text and half supported HTML across the plethora of clients make designing mailshots a complete nightmare so there should be some sub-standard of HTML that is both secure and universally supported.

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