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Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

bombermine.com

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Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#51

Post by hkmurakami »

What I found interesting is that when you "scale" a game from n 10 players and make it MMO style and continuously running, the strength disparity between the players who have been alive for quite some time and the "newly spawned" players becomes so large that a Quake/TF2-like system where players can instantly become "fully buffed" (by picking up an uber gun, for instance) becomes necessary.

Furthermore, I think an interesting game design challenge is what we can introduce to these scaled up games to make the psychological rewards enticing enough to have players keep playing. After the nostalgia feeling wore off after a few minutes, I personally no longer really felt like continuing to play since it was going to be the same stuff over and over again without much variability or depth.

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#52

Post by MrScruff »

jader201 wrote: post #43
kerno wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how we get there. HTML5 is pretty fresh and it's games like this that let us understand it's capabilities and to improve upon them. I mean, this is a mini MMO implemented in HTML5. That's a pretty big step forward from Pacman in HTML5 already.

Yeah, I definitely agree that this is a big step from anything I've seen thus far. This was more to kick off a discussion about "are we there yet?", and if not, what is still missing? I mean, I know what I think is missing, but I've not tried building HTML5 games to understand if HTML5 is the bottleneck, or if other dependencies are the bottleneck.

Perhaps what's missing is a good reason for choosing HTML5 over traditional technologies when you're investing in a new project.

Pros:

Runtime is very widely available

Cons:

Relatively poor performance

Monetization strategy is not clear

Browser differences increase cost of development

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#53

Post by rplnt »

hkmurakami wrote: post #51

What I found interesting is that when you "scale" a game from n 10 players and make it MMO style and continuously running, the strength disparity between the players who have been alive for quite some time and the "newly spawned" players becomes so large that a Quake/TF2-like system where players can instantly become "fully buffed" (by picking up an uber gun, for instance) becomes necessary. Furthermore, I think an i…

It's not continuously running. There are rounds.

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#54

Post by hkmurakami »

rplnt wrote: post #53
hkmurakami wrote: post #51

What I found interesting is that when you "scale" a game from n 10 players and make it MMO style and continuously running, the strength disparity between the players who have been alive for quite some time and the "newly spawned" players becomes so large that a Quake/TF2-like system where players can instantly become "fully buffed" (by picking up an uber gun, for instance) becomes necessary. Furthermore, I think an i…

It's not continuously running. There are rounds.

oh oops I guess I quit too fast T_T

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#55

Post by jiggy2011 »

MrScruff wrote: post #52
jader201 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I definitely agree that this is a big step from anything I've seen thus far. This was more to kick off a discussion about "are we there yet?", and if not, what is still missing? I mean, I know what I think is missing, but I've not tried building HTML5 games to understand if HTML5 is the bottleneck, or if other dependencies are the bottleneck.

Perhaps what's missing is a good reason for choosing HTML5 over traditional technologies when you're investing in a new project. Pros: Runtime is very widely available Cons: Relatively poor performance Monetization strategy is not clear Browser differences increase cost of development

You also have to mess with Javascript on some level, even if you are compiling down from something else.

People who are professional game developers have invested a lot in C++ , have a lot of experience in that area and tend to see Javascript as something for developing websites with.

So on top of the other problems you have persuade them that it's something worth spending the time to get proficient in.

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#56

Post by T-hawk »

de90 wrote: post #47
shocks wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true, however I am not aware of a specification that, for example, makes it easy to check the scripts/resources that are being used are the correct ones. Of course any system to do this can be broken, but it strikes me a much bigger problem with Javascript in the browser than a binary. One idea that's just crossed my mind is the idea of serving different Javascript to each client? It could be obfuscated uniquely…

The way you prevent cheating in a game like this is that the game itself runs on the server. The client side is merely showing a representation of the server state. If people want to edit the scripts to show an invalid state who cares. Granted latency becomes a huge challenge, but in a perfect world (no latency) having the scripts on the clients side and having people edit them isn't a big deal

Easily said, but the challenge is making absolutely triple damn sure that the game running on the server is bulletproof against malicious input by the client. It took years for early games like Diablo and Everquest to get it right in ignoring a client sending position updates to move a character faster than nominally allowed by the game logic. And that's the tip of the iceberg.

You also have the problem of hidden information. Most games have a fog of war or simply walls that should obscure some part of the game state. If this is sent to the client, somebody will expose that information: maphack. It's not at all a trivial problem to define and send only exactly the slices of the game state that the client should have access to.

And any game where timing matters is subject to auto-aim bots and other such cyborg-style assistance to the players. Bomberman is subject to this: imagine a browser plugin that automatically moves your character out of range of a bomb in the last few instants before it explodes.

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#57

Post by sehugg »

jader201 wrote: post #29

I upvoted this because it is awesome, and it is, well... Bomberman. But I'm genuinely curious: at what point will we stop being fascinated by what can be done in HTML5, and actually start focusing more on what is actually being done -- regardless of the technology used. Or to put it another way: when will HTML5 games stop feeling like HTML5 games? For example, if this were on a console, I think it would still be cool…

This is a pretty good start: http://play.goko.com/Dominion/gameClient.html

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#58

Post by swah »

jader201 wrote: post #29

I upvoted this because it is awesome, and it is, well... Bomberman. But I'm genuinely curious: at what point will we stop being fascinated by what can be done in HTML5, and actually start focusing more on what is actually being done -- regardless of the technology used. Or to put it another way: when will HTML5 games stop feeling like HTML5 games? For example, if this were on a console, I think it would still be cool…

We need to stop excusing games being slow because they're written in HTML5. They are still behind Flash games from 10 years ago.

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#59

Post by pifflesnort »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #55
MrScruff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps what's missing is a good reason for choosing HTML5 over traditional technologies when you're investing in a new project. Pros: Runtime is very widely available Cons: Relatively poor performance Monetization strategy is not clear Browser differences increase cost of development

You also have to mess with Javascript on some level, even if you are compiling down from something else. People who are professional game developers have invested a lot in C++ , have a lot of experience in that area and tend to see Javascript as something for developing websites with. So on top of the other problems you have persuade them that it's something worth spending the time to get proficient in.

If you're coming from a deep machine and C++ understanding, it's not that JavaScript is tough to become proficient in, but rather, that you of all people have every reason to fully comprehend why it's such an awful implementation choice for this proposed purpose. It's not as if the PC or mobile game market is suffering for lack of cross-platform browser-based compatibility, so why switch to a suboptimal tool?

Re: Bomberman massively multiplayer in HTML5

#60

Post by shizcakes »

sehugg wrote: post #57
jader201 wrote: post #29

I upvoted this because it is awesome, and it is, well... Bomberman. But I'm genuinely curious: at what point will we stop being fascinated by what can be done in HTML5, and actually start focusing more on what is actually being done -- regardless of the technology used. Or to put it another way: when will HTML5 games stop feeling like HTML5 games? For example, if this were on a console, I think it would still be cool…

This is a pretty good start: http://play.goko.com/Dominion/gameClient.html

I'm glad that it's done in HTML5, but man, if you try and dissect the code - it's insane. No wonder they had large amounts of bugs for quite some time.
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