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Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

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Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#31

Post by ronyeh »

nivla wrote: post #19

Having never used GAE, it would nice if someone could expand M/S and HRD for me. It looks like OP of the bug-report is using a depreciated feature/program which according to the Project Member is causing latency issues at a specific time daily. But that could not be the real issue since another commentator who is using the new HRD is also having the same problem. It is even frustrating for people who are reading this…

M/S is Master/Slave: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastor...

HRD is High Replication Datastore: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/adminconsole/mi...

M/S is deprecated, and HRD is the new hotness (and it conveniently costs more).

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#32

Post by afhof »

A GAE user sees a problem of his service being slow, writes a frantic bug report with caps and exclamation marks and threatens to leave GAE. As a GAE user myself, two questions come to mind:

1. Is GAE outside of their .9995 SLA* uptime? If they aren't, then it probably isn't important enough spend time looking into it. Customers cannot expect better than the agreed upon uptime percent, and hosting companies are obligated to reimburse customers if they go below SLA. Both of these are covered in the SLA doc.

2. Is it reproducible? So far, the bug report mentions 2 people out of GAE users. Is 2 people enough to say its a problem with GAE? One person is panicked, and the other provides few details for the bug report.

*https://developers.google.com/appengine/sla

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#33

Post by thijser »

Confusion wrote: post #9

Well, the bug report doesn't really invite quick attention. Simply reporting your observations is not enough: you should position yourself as a competent customer, by explaining what you have done to ensure the problem isn't on your side. Mention the code hasn't changed, that you have no database cleanup cronjobs or similar running that could be interfering, etc. My first instinct when I see a report like this is: he…

We filed a more concise bug report too: https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=8...

This is a daily outage that affects all our master/slave appengine applications. We know these applications are 'deprecated', but we're still paying significant money for the service and therefore hadn't expected 'deprecated' to mean 'won't be fixed when there are problems'.

Migration to HRD is not trivial even with the tool provided by Google. HRD has a different consistency model, blob keys and associated image serving URLs will change by migrating, and last time we checked any deletes that happen during migration (which can take days) will not make it into the migrated app.

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#34

Post by dylanvee »

raverbashing wrote: post #28
dylanvee wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing about Khan Academy's application (or any other customer's) that would somehow immunize it from platform-wide serving issues.

Of course not, like when AWS fails Netflix stops working like every customer. But you can bet that if Khan Academy has a problem it will be looked into with extra attention.

You're correct--because we have a Premier account, which anyone else can obtain too: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/premier/

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#35

Post by lucb1e »

To their credit, people are apparently using something that's been deprecated and should be changed regardless. At least, that was their conclusion when it was changed to wontfix. The replies are very rare and curt though, I can't really say it's quality service when you're paying for a product.

Customer support from Google has always been like this as far as I've experienced and heard. There is no way to actually reach and converse with anyone, regardless whether you are paying them for the service or what kind of request it is.

Once a Google employee randomly replied to a complaint of mine about Google+ (I didn't even +mention them). After a few comments and him confirming that it was added to the bugs list, I asked if it was okay to +mention him in the future with similar issues. It was okay. I did. He never showed his face again. (His profile still says "Works at Google+".)

Another Google employee I know online also never replies to anything concerning Google. I know he works on the Google+ project, but I can only hope he passes on any bugs I +mentioned him in.

For Youtube, you can post in their forums but merely hope for a reply. Copyright complaint disputes are no priority, either.

I haven't used many paid products, but I have read about their customer support being one of the very worst and also have never been able to find a single e-mail address or phone number to get support at for any service.

Edit: By the way, I would have moved away from the Google Apps Engine a long time ago if my app went down every morning during rush hour for 10 days straight.

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#36

Post by moobirubi »

ronyeh wrote: post #31
nivla wrote: post #19

Having never used GAE, it would nice if someone could expand M/S and HRD for me. It looks like OP of the bug-report is using a depreciated feature/program which according to the Project Member is causing latency issues at a specific time daily. But that could not be the real issue since another commentator who is using the new HRD is also having the same problem. It is even frustrating for people who are reading this…

M/S is Master/Slave: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastor... HRD is High Replication Datastore: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/adminconsole/mi... M/S is deprecated, and HRD is the new hotness (and it conveniently costs more).

I think it cost the same, when it was first out it cost more, but now it cost the same.

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#37

Post by Ironlink »

edent wrote: post #22

Why would anyone expect customer support from Google? They have made it clear time and time again that they don't provide it. http://shkspr.mobi/blog/2013/02/googles-customer-contempt-co...

Support packages are available. http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2013/02/google-cloud-pl...

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#38

Post by timme »

The headline blows this out of proportion.

Few people (who act obnoxious as hell) report a problem that can be solved by moving away from a deprecated system, yet they fail to even read the note because they're busy smashing exclamation marks into the issue tracker.

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#39

Post by nivla »

ronyeh wrote: post #31
nivla wrote: post #19

Having never used GAE, it would nice if someone could expand M/S and HRD for me. It looks like OP of the bug-report is using a depreciated feature/program which according to the Project Member is causing latency issues at a specific time daily. But that could not be the real issue since another commentator who is using the new HRD is also having the same problem. It is even frustrating for people who are reading this…

M/S is Master/Slave: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/datastor... HRD is High Replication Datastore: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/adminconsole/mi... M/S is deprecated, and HRD is the new hotness (and it conveniently costs more).

Thank You very much. That puts a lot of context to what I read in the report.

Re: Issue 8788 - Every day around 9 AM Brussels time, huge drop in GAE performance

#40

Post by raverbashing »

dylanvee wrote: post #34
raverbashing wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, like when AWS fails Netflix stops working like every customer. But you can bet that if Khan Academy has a problem it will be looked into with extra attention.

You're correct--because we have a Premier account, which anyone else can obtain too: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/premier/

Well, Caveat emptor

Also, Khan academy receives funding from Google ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_academy ), so I don't think it boils down to only having a Premier account.

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