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Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

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Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that the original "snake oils" actually were effective, just mislabeled (contained no actual snakes). "Snake oil" as used today in tech is the opposite -- accurately labeled, but ineffective.

"were effective" for what purpose? And do you have a source for that?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=snake-oil-s...

real Chinese snake oil was essentially some kind of omega-3 rich thing for topical application.

And, from the wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

"snake oil" as sold in the US was essentially capsaicin, which is used today, both as a topical treatment and others, for a variety of muscle/bone/tissue ailments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin#Medical

Whereas snake oil in cryptography tends to be worse. In practice even snake oil algorithms are probably enough protection for short-term, limited use (no one is going to devote real cryptanalysis resources to high school notes), but it can encourage people to have a false sense of security and do things they wouldn't otherwise, or it ends up getting used for purposes not originally intended.

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#22

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

So post

1) a high quality original video (30-40 Mbit).

2) a 2-Mbit video compressed with your algorithm.

3) a 2-Mbit video compressed with x264 with reasonable settings.

Until you present evidence, that article has very valid criticisms, which you have not addressed. Instead you went full PR astroturfing telling how great your tech is.

PROVE YOUR CLAIMS.

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#23

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

What you've described sounds a lot like x264's --crf option, which adaptively chooses a bitrate based on the input. How is Beamr different?

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#25
post #9
post #6

I'm not a native speaker and thus not good at phrases. Can anybody explain the "snake oil" please?

Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is himself or herself a fraud, quack, charlatan, and the like.

Which pretty much describes about 90% of the American economy.

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#26
post #22

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

So post 1) a high quality original video (30-40 Mbit). 2) a 2-Mbit video compressed with your algorithm. 3) a 2-Mbit video compressed with x264 with reasonable settings. Until you present evidence, that article has very valid criticisms, which you have not addressed. Instead you went full PR astroturfing telling how great your tech is. PROVE YOUR CLAIMS.

Beamr Video is not a bitrate-driven encoder - you cannot specify the bitrate of the output clip, so we cannot provide 2). We can only provide an output clip with the same quality as the input and lower bitrate, but we can't guarantee in advance what that bitrate would be. That is the basic difference between Beamr Video which is a quality-driven video optimization technology, and a regular video encoder that is typically bitrate-driven.

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#28

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

What you've described sounds a lot like x264's --crf option, which adaptively chooses a bitrate based on the input. How is Beamr different?

The decision Beamr Video makes are "smarter" than x264's CRF mode, since they are based on a perceptual quality measure we have developed. This quality measure is similar to the one used in JPEGmini, our image optimization technology, and has been proven (in standard ITU BT.500 testing) to have higher correlation with subjective results than other quality measures such as SSIM.

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#29

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

[deleted]

Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video

#30

Daiz hello, this is Dror from Beamr. The technologies we have developed, JPEGmini and Beamr Video, are definitely not "Snake Oil", and I don't think it would be good practice to make such claims regarding any company's technology without checking the facts first and asking for the company's response before posting. Our technologies for image and video compression have received excellent reviews in the media, and have…

Finding the optimum settings for a given video is a valuable product, and this makes the criticism of being just x264 irrelevant, but his quality comparison still seems valid. If Beamr is recompressing something to a lower quality at a given bitrate compared to standard techniques, this implies that you haven't actually solved the problem of finding the optimum settings. If the tool doesn't support this, it would probably be best to turn off the constant bitrate feature until it does support it well. If you make a feature available which is directly comparable to something else, you can't legitimately complain that people make the comparison.
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