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Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

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Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#241

Post by pdelbarba »

Volpe wrote: post #235
secure wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is not so much the installation itself, but the regular maintenance and the many subtle errors that can occur, which make running your own email server NOT as trivial as you make it sound :). As for a few examples: 1. Mailservers around the world have different degrees of strictness in what they accept. Some require the sender’s mailserver to have a valid and matching PTR and A/AAAA (!) DNS recor…

So this implies there is a market for a simple mailserver that just mimics gmail (or whatever) on your own server: e.g. apt-get install gmail-server

I've actually wondered this myself. Why isn't there a good preconfigured drop in solution for this? It would be especially nice if it had a good web front-end that you could log into remotely. How hard would it be to develop something like this? I assume it would be a matter of forking an existing project and adding some custom configs. The hard part would be the web component.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#243

Post by rdl »

Volpe wrote: post #235
secure wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it is not so much the installation itself, but the regular maintenance and the many subtle errors that can occur, which make running your own email server NOT as trivial as you make it sound :). As for a few examples: 1. Mailservers around the world have different degrees of strictness in what they accept. Some require the sender’s mailserver to have a valid and matching PTR and A/AAAA (!) DNS recor…

So this implies there is a market for a simple mailserver that just mimics gmail (or whatever) on your own server: e.g. apt-get install gmail-server

Search is IMO the hard part. I know you can do Lucerne, but getting that working well with email is hard. Until recently Outlook's search was crap compared to gmail. too, and mutt is still essentially "headers only".

Still, shouldn't be that hard to do as long as it is your own server and you trust it; I imagine a lot of the difficulty of gmail is scaling, and even a single user with 20-50GB of mail isn't in the same league.

If you were to outsource it to a service provider:

I'd love a way to do privacy-protecting search on my mailbox, either by building/maintaining a local index, or even more amazingly, some kind of cryptographic/data structure magic: do processing once either pre-encryption or on the local device, then add it to an index, with a configurable slider for data leakage vs. search quality. Search could execute locally and remotely.

(This is to allow you to use webmail with no local persistent storage, or a new phone, to search your email on a server, without trusting the server).

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#244

Post by baby »

belorn wrote: post #227

When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now. So I am not that very surprised to hear a news article like this. It makes perfectly sense with the current mentality. It also adds another nail in the coffin about idea that "only a machine is reading my emails. Why…

I actually tried many times to setup a mail server on my debian machine but never could find a good tutorial. I gave up because I lack the time.

edit: I just tried again, for more than a couple of hours. First I had to guess that I had to install MDB2_Driver_mysql. Set up a DNS to match my /var/lib/roundcube and now I'm struggling to understand how I could sign-in since he didn't create any user for me.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#245

Post by ux-app »

secure wrote: post #230
belorn wrote: post #227

When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now. So I am not that very surprised to hear a news article like this. It makes perfectly sense with the current mentality. It also adds another nail in the coffin about idea that "only a machine is reading my emails. Why…

In my experience, it is not so much the installation itself, but the regular maintenance and the many subtle errors that can occur, which make running your own email server NOT as trivial as you make it sound :). As for a few examples: 1. Mailservers around the world have different degrees of strictness in what they accept. Some require the sender’s mailserver to have a valid and matching PTR and A/AAAA (!) DNS recor…

Have to agree with this. I ran my own mail server for a few years and even though set up was easy, deliverability was a PITA (I was never able to successfully deliver to hotmail addresses even after doing everything possible on my end).

Then there's spam.. what a headache. Suddenly one day I realised that I have better things to do with my time and now everything goes through google servers.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#246

Post by veidr »

derefr wrote: post #137
mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When one of the features they migrate makes it so that the default state of a Mac is to obstruct running any software not approved by Apple, it starts to make sense to think in this direction. Full screen/launchpad are irrelevant.

You know that Windows and (some) Linux desktop environments also have that feature, right? It's not "obstruct running any software not approved by Apple," it's "obstruct running any software marked with the 'downloaded from the Internet' taint flag , unless signed with a certificate in the OS's keychain." It's a very sensible default for people who can't be trusted to not click on banners telling them to download a "…

You are talking about something different than what most people are worried about. Sure, locking down what can run at the behest of the administrator is a feature.

What people are talking about is locking down what can run at the behest of the vendor. Like how iOS is. Like how Mac OS X would be, if you couldn't disable Gatekeeper.

You think users "always will be" able to disable Gatekeeper, but I don't think there is any evidence to support that. It's entirely up to Apple, and if they want to implement a TPM-based (or other) Mac UDID and lock Macs down to Apple-approved software, they will go right ahead and do whatever the fuck they want to do.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#247

Post by luchs »

belorn wrote: post #227

When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now. So I am not that very surprised to hear a news article like this. It makes perfectly sense with the current mentality. It also adds another nail in the coffin about idea that "only a machine is reading my emails. Why…

>When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now.

In Germany, email is actually protected by the Fernmeldegeheimnis [1], even while the email is saved on the provider's server. The reasoning behind that [2] seems to be that the mail server's storage is part of the communication process, no matter how long the data sits there.

[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernmeldegeheimnis#E-Mail [2] http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/pressemitteilungen/bv...

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#248

Post by supercoder »

revelation wrote: post #231
belorn wrote: post #227

When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now. So I am not that very surprised to hear a news article like this. It makes perfectly sense with the current mentality. It also adds another nail in the coffin about idea that "only a machine is reading my emails. Why…

It's very very problematic. With all the spam, your mail server is not going to be trusted by any major providers. Their weak heuristics have no problem banning your 1 user mailserver, but they have gmail whitelisted to not ever ban them.

Agreed, this is the biggest barrier to running your own mailserver.

Even if you think deliverability is good for 95% of mail servers there's always some ISP that won't cater for you. So you're constantly having to be monitoring the logs to ensure your emails are being delivered.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#249

Post by veidr »

belorn wrote: post #227

When you let someone else handle your email, they own your email. There is no postal secrecy law, no rule against reading. They can touch, modify or delete according to their whims. It's their email now. So I am not that very surprised to hear a news article like this. It makes perfectly sense with the current mentality. It also adds another nail in the coffin about idea that "only a machine is reading my emails. Why…

You are absolutely right about owning your own email, but it is also worth pointing out that no email provider in their right mind would irrevocably, silently delete emails based upon this insane criterion (where a movie script attachment contained a scene where a character views an ad for legal porn).

But Apple isn't in their right mind. They have never understood the cloud, they still don't, and every single Internet service Apple has ever produced, from eWorld to .Mac to Mobile Me to iCloud has utterly sucked gigantic balls.

Which makes relying on Apple to handle your email a lot crazier than relying on say, Google, Yahoo, Rackspace Mail, Tuffmail, etc.

Re: Apple’s Deleting iCloud Emails That Contain The Phrase 'Barely Legal Teens'

#250

Post by mikeash »

badgar wrote: post #157
mikeash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I choose that over disabling Gatekeeper? Your way adds more steps but is not any safer for me.

If you forget to re-enable Gatekeeper, you're hosed. That's the big one - security-related process/workflow should be as idiotproof as possible.

I deliberately never reenabled it. I've yet to be "hosed". What are you so afraid of?
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