Software is terrible. I'm not sure the solution to the vast stinking wasteland of software slop is more people -- if pressed, I'd say it's less software.
Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
71–80 of 234 posts
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#72The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…
> The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Conversely, you don't need to be a decent programmer to get a CS degree. It's a shame that in the age of the internet and self-directed learning, degrees are so heavily weighted in the job market.
I basically came here to say this. Often HN is frequented by those who are go to top CS schools, but I do not think they are in the majority of most CS schools. It is really possible to escape a university with a BS and MS without knowing how to develop and learn beyond your scope of knowledge. At our university, for example, we are supposedly taught C++, but I still find myself having to explain basics like STL Containers such as Sets and Maps to 3rd and 4th year students. This is after they've run into bugs with something that would essentially take two or three lines using one of the above structures.
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> More autonomy for programmers means more high-quality work is done, which generates higher returns already but also means that programmers improve. I disagree. The self-motivated path may be "more productive" for that one person, but it does nothing to guarantee returns or value for the larger organization. Any employee should leave a company if they believe that their executive team is consistently shown to be ine…
I disagree. The self-motivated path may be "more productive" for that one person, but it does nothing to guarantee returns or value for the larger organization. I don't think you've been in software for very long. Most software is terrible . Code and software quality are serious issues. Unmanaged complexity costs companies millions of dollars. This is a direct result of the low average competence of software engineer…
> Code and software quality are serious issues. Unmanaged complexity costs companies millions of dollars. This is a direct result of the low average competence of software engineers...
If the executives aren't aware of these facts, then it's a communication error. If they are ignoring the facts then there's little chance they would entertain a push for autonomy.
> ... You'll just end up job hopping in the search for something incredibly rare. Better is to assume that most executives are harmful and minimize your career exposure to their incompetence and malice.
Blame flows downhill, my friend. By accepting autonomy you're opening yourself to the risk of those actions. It's quite the opposite to minimization.
Conceptually, I like your ideas. Empowering smart people is rarely a bad decision. But attempting to change from within an existing behemoth, with their entrenched positions, is a far-fetched dream.
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#74At first, I dislike teaching programming in schools. It is because the space might then be over populated and finding jobs will be harder. Then I realized math was taught in school, science was taught in school. But most of us students didn't end up as mathematicians or scientists. Programming is much like math and science. It is a technical topic, and not all of us will like it. It can be taught in school as an esse…
It would make software developers' lives a lot easier if so many people weren't scared out of their wits by computers. I think even basic programming knowledge can really help with that, because it makes it abundantly clear that a computer is, itself, a tool rather than a magic box (that happens to contain some tools in between all the scary and confusing stuff).
It isn't so much that I think everyone should be writing their own databases, but some understanding of how good software _should_ work, (for example, standard data formats), can guide informed decisions about software. Some basic technical knowledge is enough to understand why you should never build a large website on an ancient CMS where you end up with thousands of HTML pages that will need to be completely rewritten, one by one through some clunky web interface, when the site's design changes. Anyone should be able to look at that kind of setup and say "hey, that's complete garbage — let's hire someone who knows what they're doing!" and there will be a few less website janitors in the world. And hopefully a few more people making cool new stuff in their place.
Sorry, that kind of veered off course :/
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#75I think it's interesting that initiatives to teach programming mostly reach to kids. A big chunk of my peer group is 30 year-old underemployed humanities students. If they were interested, I'm sure that most of them could be not-underemployed. Though TV takes its toll.
I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence. Are you saying that your friends are too distracted by TV to learn coding?
I feel that if my peers would stop with the incessant stream TV, movie, and video games, they would have no problem fitting in the time to learn all manner of useful tricks, including picking up skills that would free them from the jobs they hate.
I don't believe this is a collective personal shortcoming on their part-- it's probably just the way of the world-- but the idea that so many of them hate their jobs but have ten hours a week to play games/watch films frustrates me. Rationally I understand why you might want to spend the day between your swing shifts waiting tables doing something other than working, but from where I am I think that all I can do is encourage them to do other things and point out resources.
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#76Personally I think the world is drunk with "code fever". We are creatures of overreaction. Not too long ago it was "no one learn to code! it's all going to be outsourced to India!" Now, "I'm starting a non-profit to spread the gift of coding to children. Coding is our future". Give me a f-ing break.
Is it really that surprising to you that this would cause such a reaction? Over the past few years, coding has become so accessible that non-technical people are able easily set up projects with a few lines of code. It has also become a lot more social with programmers posting in hundreds of blogs, on twitter nonstop, and collaborating on sites like Github.
This is all besides the point, though. What is wrong with "code fever," as you put it? With that kind of connotation, you seem to be implying that there is some kind of net loss if everyone learns something about programming. Beyond being mad about a fad (which is itself an overreaction, I might add), it doesn't make much sense to me. Care to explain?
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. Not many young people know who Gabe Newell or Drew Houston is. But seeing big names like that that younger people are familiar with could lead to more interest in coding. Great video.
Or compare the public reaction of the death of Steve Jobs vs. the death of David Ritchie
The irony of you getting Dennis Ritchie's name wrong is strong...
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> More autonomy for programmers means more high-quality work is done, which generates higher returns already but also means that programmers improve. I disagree. The self-motivated path may be "more productive" for that one person, but it does nothing to guarantee returns or value for the larger organization. Any employee should leave a company if they believe that their executive team is consistently shown to be ine…
I disagree. The self-motivated path may be "more productive" for that one person, but it does nothing to guarantee returns or value for the larger organization. I don't think you've been in software for very long. Most software is terrible . Code and software quality are serious issues. Unmanaged complexity costs companies millions of dollars. This is a direct result of the low average competence of software engineer…
their inability to get good projects on which they would improve.
As someone who learned to code informally and is now looking for their first real software development job, I worry about this most.
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Conversely, you don't need to be a decent programmer to get a CS degree. It's a shame that in the age of the internet and self-directed learning, degrees are so heavily weighted in the job market.
I basically came here to say this. Often HN is frequented by those who are go to top CS schools, but I do not think they are in the majority of most CS schools. It is really possible to escape a university with a BS and MS without knowing how to develop and learn beyond your scope of knowledge. At our university, for example, we are supposedly taught C++, but I still find myself having to explain basics like STL Cont…
Another problem is that CS is often very, ahem, academic.
In the UK, we have the British Computer Society (BCS) who give accreditation. If your doing a CS corse without BCS accreditation everyone knows it will be a bit suspect.
However, the BCS you've probably never heard of, they aren't exactly at the forefront of anything, they are also quite stuck in the past.
In a world where dynamic or at the very least JIT'd languages are the norm, teaching Pascal or Delphi I really doubt is in the best interests of the students. Yet in 2003 that is what I was taught for first year.
So the idea that a CS graduate will be able to go in to software development immediately is a bit missleading. It's more a case of someone who has a CS degree will have demonstrated they have the aptitude to become a software dev.
tl,dr: its education, not training.
Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code
#80Just want to share something I've been involved with: http://www.kidsruby and http://www.kidscodecamp.com