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Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

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Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#31

Post by michaelochurch »

nbashaw wrote: post #8
michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

How in any way would this benefit the economy as a whole?

First, the shortage of good programmers has more to do with the scarcity of high-quality work than a lack of access to knowledge. More autonomy for programmers means more high-quality work is done, which generates higher returns already but also means that programmers improve.

Second, if programmers take the decision-making roles back from smooth-talking executives, that means that smarter and more competent people will be calling the shots and society will run more efficiently.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#33

Post by wes-exp »

Personally I think the world is drunk with "code fever". We are creatures of overreaction.

Not too long ago it was "no one learn to code! it's all going to be outsourced to India!"

Now, "I'm starting a non-profit to spread the gift of coding to children. Coding is our future".

Give me a f-ing break.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#34

Post by pawelwentpawel »

kayoone wrote: post #18

I get the message and it certainly makes sense for alot of people to be able to code, but on the other hand i know so many (also smart) people that hate any job that would involve using a computer for more than communication. Not everyone wants to sit in front of a screen all day, and imo thats a good thing.

But most of the people do anyway. Majority of office jobs involve sitting in front of the screen through the whole day. Having some basic programming skills and general knowledge of "what is happening under the hood" would make many people's work much easier but we can't expect them to suddenly become developers just because it's cool and useful. However, most of them don't even realize how useful knowing at least one scripting programming language can be. What sit in front of the screen through the whole day if with little effort you can automate some areas of your work.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#35

Post by mike_herrera »

michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

Autonomy within an organization sounds novel for morale, but it's a major shift from today's business culture. Strategy would also be incredibly difficult to execute. Organizational leaders need to be able to align their people down a common path.

If autonomy is the end-goal, start a company or go freelance.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#36

Post by michaelochurch »

jonknee wrote: post #29
michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

> Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most of us don't have the autonomy to choose our tools or decide whether to use or replace old legacy code. Shouldn't our…

I think you're off the mark, because you're always "working for someone else". Details change, but ultimately there's no difference between "mak[ing] something that is useful" and working for others. Sometimes the terms are great, and sometimes they're awful.

The implicit assumption is that "working for an established organization" must imply "working with miserably low levels of autonomy". I'm not sure that I agree.

If we negotiate better terms, we get more autonomy and more compensation. This will also give more people the financial means to start their own companies and get that level of autonomy.

The problem is that the exchange rate between capital/establishment and talent/effort is very unfavorable in comparison to what it could be.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#37

Post by nickmain »

michaelochurch wrote: post #4

The gap between CS majors and software jobs is misleading. You don't need a CS degree to become a decent programmer. Still, if there's such a shortage of good programmers (and I agree that there probably is) then why aren't we playing this to our advantage? A senior engineer can't afford a house in the Bay Area or New York, and our status is low-- we still work for managers; we're a defeated tribe in this way. Most o…

Maybe we should be talking less about forming "tribes" and more about how to make programming accessible to anyone who needs to solve real problems using computers.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#38

Post by vellum »

I think exposing kids to programming is a good thing. But when so many applicants fail the Fizzbuzz test, do you think there is something innate about coding? For other subjects, like math, you can get most people to do the basics, like add 2+2.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/07/separating-programm...

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#39

Post by mike_herrera »

michaelochurch wrote: post #31
nbashaw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How in any way would this benefit the economy as a whole?

First, the shortage of good programmers has more to do with the scarcity of high-quality work than a lack of access to knowledge. More autonomy for programmers means more high-quality work is done, which generates higher returns already but also means that programmers improve. Second, if programmers take the decision-making roles back from smooth-talking executives, that means that smarter and more competent people w…

> More autonomy for programmers means more high-quality work is done, which generates higher returns already but also means that programmers improve.

I disagree. The self-motivated path may be "more productive" for that one person, but it does nothing to guarantee returns or value for the larger organization.

Any employee should leave a company if they believe that their executive team is consistently shown to be inept.

Re: Zuck, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey In Short Film To Inspire Kids To Learn How To Code

#40

Post by mich41 »

School courses will do nothing if people don't have access to programmable computers. And they don't have - Windows doesn't ship with Visual Studio, OSX and Linux are irrelevant, iOS and Android don't come with SDK CDs and demos.

Now, of course, you know that these tools exist, and I know too. But most people don't and to them programming simply doesn't exist. Teaching these people quicksort in school won't be of much help.

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