Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bullying has to stop, now.

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 181 posts

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#121

Post by mediacrisis »

polymatter wrote: post #62
babarock wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that age-based classes is stupid. But what's the alternative? The idea of classifying 5 year old kids based on any kind of factor scares the hell out of me.

Erm, what scares you about ability-based classes? The single strongest motivator for me to do well at school was to get into the top set which was free from bullies.

I think its pretty common that when students are divided by "ability", especially later on in middle or high school, it can weigh pretty heavily on the students in the "lower ability" classes. Its essentially saying "we don't expect much but you need to be here."

This system works out very well for bright, academically inclined students, sure. But it sets a structure of expectations that don't motivate what could possibly be great talent, but we wouldn't know because they didn't bubble in the right answer.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#122

Post by king_jester »

Nursie wrote: post #85
moron4hire wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And mandatory attendance. You can't force someone to learn when they don't want to. Stop treating schools like prisons and the attendees will stop acting like inmates.

School is a combination of daycare and training. We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. It also allows more people to work - someone else is looking after the kids. There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing fo…

> We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life.

For most of the "disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised", as you put it, mandatory school attendance does nothing to solve their problems anyway, as the people you are thinking of have many systemic things running against them in addition any personal issues in their lives.

> There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing for society.

Mandatory school isn't the same thing as doing something positive for communities. Some communities will find the policy beneficial, others will find it destructive (esp. when some kids are forced into school systems are that literal prisons, complete with metal detectors, cell phone lockers you pay out of pocket for, and frequent searches of all student belongings).

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#123

Post by king_jester »

jerf wrote: post #95
cathustler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kid with a myth of a father, and a mother who trades out her allotted food-stamps for drug money is a thug? Bullies aren't born, they're created; I have not once met a bully who had a perfect life before they decided to get angry and take it out on their peers, because, well, they don't know any better. So, yes, kids will be kids.

OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Your argument often ends up implicitly turning into "Therefore, we shouldn't punish the bully, it's not his fault. Therefore, I guess, well, we'll do nothing." You've cognitively narrowed your focus to just the bully and forgotten everyone else who is getting bullied. Tha…

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it?

Eliminate the social problems that make said person's life hard in the first place. Reduce poverty, end racist laws and law enforcement, and make it possible for individuals and communities to have self determination rather than being undermined by private and public institutions.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#124

Post by Carlee »

Being bullied is a terrible thing to experience, and I wish that kids wouldn't be that cruel, however, to me, it is not fair to expel or exclude the bully.

You can't blame the bully for his/her social upbringing. Kids are basically psychopaths in such a young age - they just act according to whatever they feel, and if they haven't been taught boundaries - well, shit. Bad environments promote shitty attitudes and behaviour patterns, which is often due to their parents. Rich or poor doesn't matter. Some of the worst bullies I've been faced against came from wealthy families.

I think schools should be more focused on teaching the bullies way to cope with things at home, instead of simply excluding them. The bullies don't change their attitude, and someone new will take their place (I recall a Danish study about class rooms where the bullies removed, experienced the same amount of bulling just a month later. New bullies take other's places).

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#125

Post by StavrosK »

MattBearman wrote: post #8
jbrooksuk wrote: post #5

I can relate to this website and cause. I was bullied throughout my entire high school life, in the UK that's a total of 5 years. I hated every single second of it and my academic skills reflect this. I wasn't a troubled kid, I wasn't someone who looked to cause trouble and I wasn't in trouble except a couple of occasions. I found myself being physically beaten almost every day for being the runt of the kids. I didn'…

It's odd, people always say things like "violence doesn't solve anything" but I've heard so many stories like yours where the bullying only stops when the victim retaliates with force. While I've personally never been on either end of bullying, what I've heard leads me to believe that for extreme physical bullying, getting violent can be the solution.

I was also bullied until the bully got an ass kicking. For all the bullying he did, he was surprisingly easy to beat up, or maybe he didn't think I was going to punch him.

He actually avoided me afterwards.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#127

Post by TheAnimus »

stared wrote: post #99
Nursie wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is a combination of daycare and training. We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. It also allows more people to work - someone else is looking after the kids. There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing fo…

> mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing for society. [citation needed] ...and on the other hand putting smart kids _willing_ to learn in an uninspiring and oppressive environment. (Bad for their learning and devastating for their still developing personality.) IMHO it's hard to find a worse crime against natural curiosity and willingness than _forcing_ people to do something.

It's a good thing for Children who want to learn, but who's parents want to send them to the mines instead.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#128

Post by digitalengineer »

Mz wrote: post #112
digitalengineer wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to educate my little girl in standing up for herself. The thing is she is kind and considerate, even to bullies. She's doing judo now and when she's 7 she wants to do kids-Krav Maga. I hope that helps her understand she is not powerless. (Krav Maga for kids is also about understanding bullies and situations).

Please do not mistake kind and considerate for powerless. One of my favorite stories is of a woman who decided to walk out on a class about "empowerment" rather than learn to yell at people. One of the other students said "God, what a bitch" as she quietly left rather than take her turn dutifully berating people.

True words and good example. It took courage to step up and walk out of the group.

I'm trying to communicate to her she is definitely not powerless. I used the example of a cat: Not very big or as powerful as a dog, but you still wouldn't pick it up and mess with it. She doesn't have to be as strong as the bullies, as long as they know she won't tolerate any (physical) abuse.

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#129

Post by acuozzo »

king_jester wrote: post #123
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Your argument often ends up implicitly turning into "Therefore, we shouldn't punish the bully, it's not his fault. Therefore, I guess, well, we'll do nothing." You've cognitively narrowed your focus to just the bully and forgotten everyone else who is getting bullied. Tha…

> OK, but what's your point? So the bully has a hard life. OK, yes, that's true, so sad (really, no sarcasm), but what do you plan on doing about it? Eliminate the social problems that make said person's life hard in the first place. Reduce poverty, end racist laws and law enforcement, and make it possible for individuals and communities to have self determination rather than being undermined by private and public in…

> Reduce poverty, end racist laws and law enforcement, and make it possible for individuals and communities to have self determination rather than being undermined by private and public institutions.

Welcome to the twenty-fourth century. My name is Jean-Luc Picard and I'm captain of the starship ``Enterprise''...

Re: Bullying has to stop, now.

#130

Post by chimpinee »

I don't think people appreciate how intractable a problem bullying is. For instance, bullying is qualitatively indistinguishable from teasing, which is regarded by most as part of normal, healthy socialisation. Hence low-level bullying goes unperceived. OTOH intense bullying is an embarrassment to the school statistics and hence frequently denied or covered up.

We live in a society where people still put a tremendous amount of effort into being normal and liked, and as a corollary we tend to persecute those who don't do this. Bullies are our unappointed henchmen.

Post reply on HN