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Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

arstechnica.com

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Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#81

Post by sfall »

noonespecial wrote: post #12

It seems absurd but I'm going to have to side with the state/library on this one. It can literally cost more to make a choice to use the cheaper unit than to just buy the big one. "Some libraries need smaller routers. Ok. Which ones?" could easily run in the millions before any routers were purchased. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of government purchasing.

they could have used a population list to figure out that a voip server for a library that can handle as many voip lines as 50% of the residents of the town.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#82

Post by spikels »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #24

Probably going against the grain here, but what about the operations staff who are charged with supporting these 1,164 routers? What about warranties and parts replacements? There is a price for standardizing on a piece of hardware at such a large scale. When you standardize, sure there is going to be hardware overkill in some places, but in the big picture this is just a price of doing business at this scale. What i…

Thanks! Nice job at sowing seeds of doubt when faced with with clearly damning evidence of incompetence. You clearly have a brilliant future in government procurement.

Next task: make the case standardizing on Ferrari 599s for all government vehicles. All of you arguments will hold in that cases as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_599_GTB_Fiorano

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#83

Post by yogo »

gchpaco wrote: post #54
ryguytilidie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are people not being arrested for this daily?

Those charged with enforcing the rules are not infrequently in bed with those violating the rules; "regulatory capture".

Off-topic comment but it seems like some kind of trend to intentionally use double negatives in comments. I understand that sometimes using the double negative could be an important distinction, e.g. "not uncommon" does not necessarily mean common, but in this case I think one has to go out of the way to say "not infrequently." Maybe it's just me but I had to re-read that sentence to be sure I understood what was said.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#84

Post by guynamedloren »

This makes me sick to my stomach. The worst part is that there's nothing we (the taxpayers whose hard earned money went to to pay for these things) can do about it, nor is there much we can do to prevent it from happening in the future. I really really hate to admit it, but that's the truth.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#85

Post by inopinatus »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #10
nikcub wrote: post #8

I have first hand experience with this, although in Australia. My first job was working for a IT development and solutions shop (this is over 17 years ago) where they won the bid to rollout the internet and network gateways across a large number of Australian government schools. We were doing similar work for private school at the same time, and the process for the public and private school could not be more differen…

It sounds like your company ripped off the public schools, and that's why you are anti-government?

Well, if this was his first job, perhaps it wasn't his company.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#86

Post by sneak »

scotty79 wrote: post #76
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cisco may not have anything to do with it. It may be down to a salesman in the middle who is on commission. I once saw CCTV cameras deployed with Jena lenses, I guess for similar reasons. The auditors (if there were any) weren't knowledgeable enough to know better. edit: After further reading, Cisco did in fact shamelessly participate in this gigantic boondoggle.

In my country government officials are usually paid to be this stupid. I can't imagine USA government officials are this stupid for free. I know ... never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity, but come on! Someone sure got at least a nice car out of it.

> I can't imagine USA government officials are this stupid for free.

Hooo boy.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#87

Post by sneak »

scotty79 wrote: post #76
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cisco may not have anything to do with it. It may be down to a salesman in the middle who is on commission. I once saw CCTV cameras deployed with Jena lenses, I guess for similar reasons. The auditors (if there were any) weren't knowledgeable enough to know better. edit: After further reading, Cisco did in fact shamelessly participate in this gigantic boondoggle.

In my country government officials are usually paid to be this stupid. I can't imagine USA government officials are this stupid for free. I know ... never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity, but come on! Someone sure got at least a nice car out of it.

> I can't imagine USA government officials are this stupid for free.

Hooo boy.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#88

Post by spikels »

noonespecial wrote: post #12

It seems absurd but I'm going to have to side with the state/library on this one. It can literally cost more to make a choice to use the cheaper unit than to just buy the big one. "Some libraries need smaller routers. Ok. Which ones?" could easily run in the millions before any routers were purchased. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of government purchasing.

Great - justify incompetence with lazy reasoning. Why bother figuring out what each library needs just assume they are all as big as the largest public library.

I though I was cynical but if this it truly "the nature of government purchasing" I am clearly not nearly cynical enough.

Q: Wouldn't the internet service provider be willing to throw in a router for free? I got one with my $20/month service. I bet these libraries are paying a bit more than me.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#89

Post by DanielBMarkham »

What's worse than overpaying millions for a few routers? Overpaying billions.

At the federal level, specifically to prevent such things from occurring, there's this huge byzantine procurement process. A process that is literally worth tens of billions of dollars to game.

So if you have product foo and want to see a zillion copies of it to the feds instead of some freeware or cheaper solution? 1) Convince somebody on the inside of the procurement system that yours is the best product, 2) they write up the specification so that no other products will qualify (many times just copying directly from your brochure) even though it's technically an "open" bid, and 3) have somebody with lots of procurement knowledge help guide the paperwork through the system. At the end of the day, it's all just paperwork, no matter how much money is involved.

And that's just what I've observed in IT. I'm guessing IT is the worst, since all the products somewhat look alike. But I'm not sure. Quite frankly, its way too depressing to think about much.

BTW, the best way to do #1 is simply hire people retiring out of the procurement system. Yep, there are laws against direct hires, so you hire somebody from DoD to help shepherd a Commerce Department contract, or a DHS procurement expert to help with a DoD job, and so forth. If you do this correctly, the poor schmucks left handling the paperwork will be so happy that you can offer extensive support in making sure everything is done correctly that this is another huge plus in favor of your getting the bid.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#90

Post by robryan »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #47
homosaur wrote: post #38

Corruption is awesome when you're on the nipple end of the government tit. Nice work if you can get it, Cisco.

Cisco may not have anything to do with it. It may be down to a salesman in the middle who is on commission. I once saw CCTV cameras deployed with Jena lenses, I guess for similar reasons. The auditors (if there were any) weren't knowledgeable enough to know better. edit: After further reading, Cisco did in fact shamelessly participate in this gigantic boondoggle.

Is this really ciscos fault though? They weren't being paid to tell the government what they needed in these schools.
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