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Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

arstechnica.com

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Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#11

Post by redshirtrob »

I'd like to know how much of that $5 million savings would have been burned up in the capacity studies. My guess is a lot.

Given the choice between a fixed cost and an unbounded cost (being the capacity study referenced throughout the article) I'm not surprised they went with the fixed cost.

I'm not saying WV didn't get swindled, but I can sure see how this might have happened:

WV Rep: Do we really need these $20k routers for all our locations?

Cisco: We really couldn't say what your exact needs are without a proper study.

WV Rep: What will that cost?

Cisco: It's really hard to say. We'll have to visit all of your locations and speak with the IT Manager there. We'll have to measure average and peak load. Of course, we'll want to plan for future growth so we're not at this same point in two years...

The real crime is that they didn't open the RFP to multiple bidders. A little bit of competition can go a long way.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#12

Post by noonespecial »

It seems absurd but I'm going to have to side with the state/library on this one. It can literally cost more to make a choice to use the cheaper unit than to just buy the big one.

"Some libraries need smaller routers. Ok. Which ones?" could easily run in the millions before any routers were purchased. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of government purchasing.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#15

Post by _delirium »

nikcub wrote: post #8

I have first hand experience with this, although in Australia. My first job was working for a IT development and solutions shop (this is over 17 years ago) where they won the bid to rollout the internet and network gateways across a large number of Australian government schools. We were doing similar work for private school at the same time, and the process for the public and private school could not be more differen…

There seems to be something very broken with contracting in the US, which seems more specifically US government operations than government in general. If you look at something where you can compare prices between countries, like per-mile subway construction costs, the U.S. is a huge outlier, with procurement costs much higher than Europe.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#16

Post by delinka »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #10
nikcub wrote: post #8

I have first hand experience with this, although in Australia. My first job was working for a IT development and solutions shop (this is over 17 years ago) where they won the bid to rollout the internet and network gateways across a large number of Australian government schools. We were doing similar work for private school at the same time, and the process for the public and private school could not be more differen…

It sounds like your company ripped off the public schools, and that's why you are anti-government?

Yeah, but they ripped off the public schools less than the competitors would have.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#17

Post by sputknick »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #10
nikcub wrote: post #8

I have first hand experience with this, although in Australia. My first job was working for a IT development and solutions shop (this is over 17 years ago) where they won the bid to rollout the internet and network gateways across a large number of Australian government schools. We were doing similar work for private school at the same time, and the process for the public and private school could not be more differen…

It sounds like your company ripped off the public schools, and that's why you are anti-government?

They were 50% lower than the next lowest bidder. Sounds like his company provided the taxpayers with a bargain.

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#19

Post by vidarh »

nikcub wrote: post #8

I have first hand experience with this, although in Australia. My first job was working for a IT development and solutions shop (this is over 17 years ago) where they won the bid to rollout the internet and network gateways across a large number of Australian government schools. We were doing similar work for private school at the same time, and the process for the public and private school could not be more differen…

You get similar stuff at private companies too, though few private companies are large enough for corruption like that to be able to reach the same scale without getting too big to go unnoticed by auditors for long enough.

The number of times I've had potential supplier hint at extra perks or "return favours" is fairly high, and I've not even been in positions of very substantial purchasing power.

It's often not even direct exchanges that are being hinted at either, but "simply" seemingly innocent networking: Buy from the "right" well connected sales guys and make it clear you're "flexible" about requirements, and they know they benefit from exploiting their network to the max helping you get lucrative jobs in big companies where you can spend more with him.

It's often only morals that prevents it from happening - I've been in plenty of situations while where my budgets were not huge, nobody knew enough to second guess my decisions, and I could've easily spent a lot more than I did without anyone batting an eyelid. Especially since just the very act of bloating your budget in many places makes you look more impressive and important and translates into status (and looks good on your CV...)

Re: Why a one-room West Virginia library runs a $20,000 Cisco router

#20

Post by jessaustin »

noonespecial wrote: post #12

It seems absurd but I'm going to have to side with the state/library on this one. It can literally cost more to make a choice to use the cheaper unit than to just buy the big one. "Some libraries need smaller routers. Ok. Which ones?" could easily run in the millions before any routers were purchased. Unfortunately, that's just the nature of government purchasing.

This is bullshit. They could have put the network engineer from the Department (the guy who confirmed he had not requested dual power supplies) on this for a week, and he would have had a solid estimate for far less. Put him on it a month and he could have had an itemized order with the exact models to order from Cisco or from any of its competitors. If he were busy with other duties, any other network engineer in the state's employ could have done the same. If they were all too busy, a consultant could have been hired on for a month's engagement at two to three times the FTE cost.
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