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The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

nytimes.com

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Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#171

Post by Goladus »

fingerprinter wrote: post #151
Goladus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that this article still pushes the agenda that "fat makes us fat." If there's one thing that hasn't proven out at all, it's that fat makes us fat! Overeating makes us fat. Caloric surplus makes us fat. It's pretty trivial to consume a caloric surplus eating lots of fatty foods. In that sense: fat makes us fat and it's silly to try denying it. It doesn't mean a low-fat diet will make you lose weight, it j…

> Insulin does not regulate fat storage, leptin does. Obesity is a complex state and there are no simple answers. A diet that may be best for weight loss in one individual may not be the same diet that is best for another. This seems particularly likely if one of the two individuals is not obese. You have this backwards. Insulin DOES help regulate fat storage (among other things). Leptin controls appetite and can act…

And I'll jump in on this calories vs everything else. If, as I've said many times before in other posts, all you care about is weight, only track calories (you'll most likely end up skinny-fat...but at a certain weight. Horray! You are now unhealthy at a lower weight. Congratulations!) If you care about losing fat, track macros and reduce carb intake to lose fat (along with weight lifting, HIIT and some carb-refeeds to manage hormone levels).

heh "most likely end up skinny-fat"

I have visceral fat, though I have never been outside my target BMI range. The only time in my adult life that I did not have visceral fat was when I was on a low FAT diet (doctor prescribed) and exercising every day. I do not have pre-diabetes. Other than the visceral fat I show no other signs of metabolic syndrome.

But I don't go around telling people they should be eating more carbs. I don't tell people that eating carbs will make you skinny-fat.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#173

Post by lukifer »

SilasX wrote: post #161
lukifer wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy is a very loose one: I mean more the general incentive to maximize profit to the detriment of customers, going right up to the line, but not over, where they stop paying you.

Sure, but it breaks in that customers don't have to buy from the company that got them hooked -- it drives them to buy from everyone who sells that, not just the initial "pusher".[1] It's similar to the implausibility of group selection -- doing things for (unrelated) group members doesn't give a differential advantage for the doer's genes, so it tends not to happen. Likewise, techniques that hook you on "sugar-fat f…

You're right, the analogy doesn't entirely hold. But then, I used to have a hell of a Taco Bell/Mountain Dew addiction, and obviously couldn't get my fix anywhere else. :)

Food and willpower have a tricky relationship, because willpower is literally fueled by food (glucose). When you're well-fed, your willpower is high, but when your glucose is depleted, suppressing the instinct to reach for that donut is a non-trivial proposition.

I think it's absurd to hold super-stimuli providers legally or morally responsible for poor nutrition habits; they're giving people what they want. But I do think it's helpful for consumers to view Doritos and Coke in the same category as other risky behaviors with high addiction potential: cigarettes, gambling, etc.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#174

Post by Goladus »

shanev wrote: post #156
Goladus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people I know who think obesity is complex Do you think obesity is not complex? You'll probably be skinny fat Probably? What if you are not? Do you just not count those people?

Let me clear that up. The biochemistry of obesity is not trivial, but knowing what to eat to control your weight is not hard. It just takes some research and self experimentation. It's empowering when you figure out how certain foods affect you. I'm at a point where if I want a six pack again, I know exactly what to eat and for how long. I understand the makeup of most of the foods I eat and understand the consequenc…

Paleo isn't the only other option to the "Standard American Diet."

Sure it's one answer, but the Paleo fear of agriculture can get a bit extreme. People in the US have been living to healthy ages for a long time despite eating lots of wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, and dairy products.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#175

Post by SilasX »

lukifer wrote: post #173
SilasX wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it breaks in that customers don't have to buy from the company that got them hooked -- it drives them to buy from everyone who sells that, not just the initial "pusher".[1] It's similar to the implausibility of group selection -- doing things for (unrelated) group members doesn't give a differential advantage for the doer's genes, so it tends not to happen. Likewise, techniques that hook you on "sugar-fat f…

You're right, the analogy doesn't entirely hold. But then, I used to have a hell of a Taco Bell/Mountain Dew addiction, and obviously couldn't get my fix anywhere else. :) Food and willpower have a tricky relationship, because willpower is literally fueled by food (glucose). When you're well-fed, your willpower is high, but when your glucose is depleted, suppressing the instinct to reach for that donut is a non-trivi…

>You're right, the analogy doesn't entirely hold. But then, I used to have a hell of a Taco Bell/Mountain Dew addiction, and obviously couldn't get my fix anywhere else.

That's a good point, and it would be interesting to learn what keeps consumers from searching for substitutes. I guess that marketing and branding makes people so strongly associate the good feeling with one very specific brand, which makes them not want to seek out all a low-bidder.

Otherwise, I think we're in agreement, and we have to recognize that the effects of the foods make people deviate from the "level-headed decision maker" that justifies leaving people to their own devices.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#176

Post by rickdale »

pvnick wrote: post #54
LatvjuAvs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is just no way anyone CAN eat high fat diet the way high carb diet works. The more carbs you eat, the more you carve, the more fats you eat, the less you want to eat. Of course if you do not combine them. For me it has become once per 24h food intake sometimes and then it is more like a necessity than hunger. I do eat once per week some chips with honey. But now I cringe thinking about coke, cake, donuts, bread…

Yes! The once-a-day meal plan (warrior diet). That's what I'm currently doing and my fitness gains have shot through the roof. I love binging on homemade fat-free pizza and cookies after my workout and being able to feel my abs on top of my bloated, satisfied stomach. Then I can go write software for 9 hours and not eat. It's truly remarkable really. I feel bad for those guys who are still driving themselves crazy ea…

just curious, how long have you been on the warrior diet? been doing all the time? What sort of gains.

I did the warrior diet this summer and lost all sorts of bodyfat/weight. I stopped and forgot about it, then I had the revelation that the last time I made progress was with the warrior diet. Now I am including it two to three times/week with slow carb diet and a cheat day for the others. It is good stuff and not worrying about food has increased! my mental focus. There are points in the day where I literally have felt like I was on adderall. Anyways, just curious about the endorsement...

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#177

Post by fusiongyro »

rthomas6 wrote: post #159
fusiongyro wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's mindlessly easy--if it were, nobody would be obese. I just don't think American obesity demands a conspiracy theory or a lot of outrage to be explained. It's adequately explained by: there's no shortage of food and greatly diminished need for physical exertion.

Why can't it be some of everything? What you said in your comment, unhealthy foods being the cheapest and easiest, and these foods not causing satiety when eaten.

It can be some of everything, but some of everything sort of undermines the conspiracy theory, don't you think?

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#178

Post by pvnick »

rickdale wrote: post #176
pvnick wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! The once-a-day meal plan (warrior diet). That's what I'm currently doing and my fitness gains have shot through the roof. I love binging on homemade fat-free pizza and cookies after my workout and being able to feel my abs on top of my bloated, satisfied stomach. Then I can go write software for 9 hours and not eat. It's truly remarkable really. I feel bad for those guys who are still driving themselves crazy ea…

just curious, how long have you been on the warrior diet? been doing all the time? What sort of gains. I did the warrior diet this summer and lost all sorts of bodyfat/weight. I stopped and forgot about it, then I had the revelation that the last time I made progress was with the warrior diet. Now I am including it two to three times/week with slow carb diet and a cheat day for the others. It is good stuff and not wo…

I've been doing the full-on warrior diet for the past two weeks or so along with the full-body workout on this page: http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/gironda-8x8-system.... I do that workout at least 3 times a week. I've gained about 5-6 pounds of muscle in the past two weeks and gotten leaner. It's been unreal. Like steroids unreal. But I also haven't been following the warrior diet to the t. I eat mostly high-gi carbs to spike my insulin along with about 1.5 grams of protein per pound of my body weight. I have a bucket of pure glucose that I substitute in for table sugar (sucrose, which includes fructose - bad) when I make things like pancakes or cookies. I also eat a lot of candy that contains zero fat and is made primarily from glucose-based corn syrup, such as gummy worms and candy corns. Brushing your teeth is crucial for this program ;). The end result is 70% of my calories coming from high-gi carbs, 25% protein, and I'm not 100% convinced that my specific diet is very healthy, so I'm planning on checking in with my doctor to make sure I'm not killing myself. I doubt it's unhealthy because I feel and look fantastic, and, if this trend continues, I'll probably make a website or something to go public with this program.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#179

Post by jrockway »

fusiongyro wrote: post #105
columbo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bleh. I may as well respond by bringing up the mother of three who works 12 hour shifts at walmart was expelled from highschool and never had even the most basic idea of food preparation or culinary training. I suppose she should simply 'bootstrap up' like the rest of us did when we were in that situation. Hah, oh that's right, the vast majority here are college educated and in the top 15% of income earners. This get…

I don't think you need to be a top 15% earner to know to stop eating when you're full.

Let me know how many calories of Coca Cola it takes to make you full.

Re: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food

#180

Post by fusiongyro »

jrockway wrote: post #179
fusiongyro wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you need to be a top 15% earner to know to stop eating when you're full.

Let me know how many calories of Coca Cola it takes to make you full.

Let me know how many times you've been forced to drink a Coke at gunpoint.
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