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The MS Surface Pro

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Re: The MS Surface Pro

#151

Post by wtallis »

supar wrote: post #86

Are there any digitizer users here? I use a Wacom digitizer daily for notes and sketches instead of using pen&paper. My wet dream is a pressure&tilt sensitive/e-ink based device, but it looks like the Surface Pro is the closest you can get currently - and this is a good review. If you want a portable device (laptop/ultrabook/tablet) with a good digitizer that you can actually use (that is, wacom based), your options…

That eInk-based device you want won't happen until eInk refresh rates improve by a lot - they list an image update time of 120ms for monochrome, and up to 980ms for color. That needs to improve by at least an order of magnitude before it can be considered responsive enough for any direct-manipulation application.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#152

Post by pmelendez »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #149
pmelendez wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap." They are not running portal 2, league of legends or sketchbook either. Those are natural trade-offs where Apple sacrifices productivity and Microsoft sacrifices portability.

Both Portal 2 and League of Legends run well on low end integrated graphics cards. The iPad may not have those particular games, but Unreal Engine 3 games are generally more demanding than Source Engine games, and there are several UE3 titles on iOS.

I had worked with Unreal Engine in both PC and the Ipad and the performance difference was abysmal.

In order to make it run we had to downsize the art and make several optimizations.

The last time I ran that game was on an Ipad 2 so that might changed with the last generation, but giving that experience I find very impressive that Surface Pro can run PC games out of the box in a satisfactory way.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#153

Post by ameen »

pmelendez wrote: post #152
jamesgeck0 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Portal 2 and League of Legends run well on low end integrated graphics cards. The iPad may not have those particular games, but Unreal Engine 3 games are generally more demanding than Source Engine games, and there are several UE3 titles on iOS.

I had worked with Unreal Engine in both PC and the Ipad and the performance difference was abysmal. In order to make it run we had to downsize the art and make several optimizations. The last time I ran that game was on an Ipad 2 so that might changed with the last generation, but giving that experience I find very impressive that Surface Pro can run PC games out of the box in a satisfactory way.

One of the reasons' the iPad has held on to its lead in the Tablet market is due to how efficient and powerful its' graphics processors are, both h/w and its software implementations.

Top of the line PowerVR chips always launch on Apple hardware, and by the time they trickle down to its competitors Apple has a new product featuring a successor around the corner.

As someone who has used both the iPad 2 and an iPad 4, the graphical performance gap is significant.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#154

Post by mahyarm »

scholia wrote: post #93
phaus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that you are less than satisfied with about it? I was close to getting one, but when I heard the stylus was the S-Trig (significantly inferior to the Wacom for artistic purposes) I just got an iPad 4 to hold me over for a couple of years. It looked really awesome, but 1300 bucks is quite a bit of money for me.

Drawing on an iPad is dreadful....

Have you tried the Adonit Jot stylus, it's pretty impressive.

http://adonit.net/jot/

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#155

Post by beernutz »

protomyth wrote: post #128
tripzilch wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop Or maybe the iPad is a terrible Surface Pro :-P But seriously: > Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on and have to…

> Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional…

I am pretty sure you can install anything you want on the Surface Pro, and from any source you like. The Surface RT is locked down, but not the Pro as i understand it.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#156

Post by tanzam75 »

hdra wrote: post #77

maybe this shows how terrible of a job the marketing department at Microsoft is doing ? reading this review alone made me look for the device online to check its price and I've had mostly the "meh" reaction since launch with all of their ads.

Apple's marketing department can sell ice to an Eskimo.

Microsoft's marketing department cannot sell water to a man who's dying of thirst.

Although -- whoever at Microsoft decided to ship a free Surface Pro to a popular online artist had the right idea. That review probably sold enough Surface Pros to pay his salary for the year.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#157

Post by Morcane »

Felix21 wrote: post #55

One article with a meaningful use-case and i am very tempted to buy the the Surface Pro. I think this is where Apple's marketing Excels over Microsoft's. Apple will show you use-cases like this all day long, showing you how their products are a better tool to get your job done. Microsoft on the other hand -"it has more memory", "USB", "its Powerful", "hd screen", "it runs excel", "side by side apps", "YAWN". Great ar…

You mean, Apple will go on all day about 'how cool and stylish' their new iSomething looks.

But yea, Microsoft's marketing department can use a little help.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#158

Post by supar »

wtallis wrote: post #151
supar wrote: post #86

Are there any digitizer users here? I use a Wacom digitizer daily for notes and sketches instead of using pen&paper. My wet dream is a pressure&tilt sensitive/e-ink based device, but it looks like the Surface Pro is the closest you can get currently - and this is a good review. If you want a portable device (laptop/ultrabook/tablet) with a good digitizer that you can actually use (that is, wacom based), your options…

That eInk-based device you want won't happen until eInk refresh rates improve by a lot - they list an image update time of 120ms for monochrome, and up to 980ms for color. That needs to improve by at least an order of magnitude before it can be considered responsive enough for any direct-manipulation application.

In this area was hoping for the NoteSlate to succeed, but it seems that it went waporware.

For notetaking the refresh speed is not so critical, as the areas to refresh are limited to the writing spot. You would probably notice lag, but if you ever drew with heavyweight painting/retouching programs, lag sometimes is introduced by processing and you just get used to it (you just don't expect immediate results and keep going).

I would still prefer a slight lag and the ability to avoid a glass screen in this case.

Re: The MS Surface Pro

#159

Post by protomyth »

beernutz wrote: post #155
protomyth wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional…

I am pretty sure you can install anything you want on the Surface Pro, and from any source you like. The Surface RT is locked down, but not the Pro as i understand it.

If you use the new API you must distribute through their app store.
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