No more remote work at Yahoo • Hacker News Board

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#151

Post by Jare » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:32 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #53

37signals comes down against a decree of no more remote working. I am shocked (shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment). Much like hiring practices this is and will continue to be a divisive issue. This one however seems to be largely driven by personal preference: if you want to work from home, you can't understand why anyone is against it. If you don't, then you do. I fall in the camp of not n…

The only policies that truly do not scale are those that reward compliance over productivity.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#152

Post by aoprisan » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

louischatriot wrote: post #82

DHH points are valid, and I agree with him that this move shows how much Yahoo trusts its employees. That basically means they have no clue why they're falling appart and think the answer is "people need to work more". But we have to keep in mind that 37signals is a very differend kind of company. I'm not sure remote work is that suited to big companies. So they may be right in principle but they're handling it poorl…

works fine for IBM

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#153

Post by aoprisan » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:37 PM UTC

webmonkeyuk wrote: post #83

We all love a sensational post! "Of course not, you’re going to be angry at such a callous edict, declared without your consultation" seems a bit out of place when the pull quote from Yahoo! reads: "If this impacts you, your management has already been in touch with next steps"

it's really not, just less bs

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#154

Post by bpatrianakos » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #138

bpatrianakos wrote: post #131

Any one of us could go off on a diatribe on why DHH is right or wrong (and some of us have) but I think this issue is actually much simpler and we're missing something crucial here. Whether remote work is a good practice or not is besides the point. I'd say, when done intelligently, it's a great thing. But don't you think Mayer knows that already? The bottom line here is that Mayer has to take a floundering company a…

Great comment. In such a dysfunctional company such as Yahoo I would bet that the majority of "remote workers" are just coasting and doing nothing. It's a shame for those productive remote workers who will either leave or be forced to start coming in, but if for every one of those people there are a hundred pieces of dead weight then I think the cost benefit analysis is pretty clear for a CEO to make.

Exactly. You said it better than I could in less words. The way I see it there's definitely a lot to discuss when it comes to remote work but as it applies to DHH's criticism I think what he says comes off as more of a way to kind of say "hey we're awesome and we promote remote working" and completely ignores what may be happening within Yahoo! to prompt this change. I wish DHH had framed his post differently because it comes off as very know-it-all-ish and doesn't seem to take into account that there might be anything else going on at Yahoo! other than what he thinks.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#155

Post by MitziMoto » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:49 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #86

cujo wrote: post #38

Wow. Why are we all of a sudden so interested in what Yahoo is doing these days? They aren't a leader in, well, anything, but now the internet is in a frenzy about this work-from-home recall. How's this for an idea? Let's see if Yahoo is a company worth looking at for leadership. They aren't? Oh. Then let their policies die with them.

Well, people who like the idea of working from home don't like the bad publicity remote working is getting from the ban at Yahoo.

Exactly this. As a full time remote worker, I fear the "monkey-see-monkey-do" fallout that could come of it. Yahoo may not be a "leader" in anything, but their CEO is one of the most respected people in Silicon Valley. When she makes a move such as this one, people notice.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#156

Post by jes5199 » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

willholloway wrote: post #136

I don't understand how serious software engineering is done in a lot of the start up offices I see in photos. These offices look like an Apple store. They are open floor plan. Instead of desks they have tables where devs sit across from each other working on 13" to 15" laptop screens. The ergonomics of these set ups are awful, and so are the economics. Real estate is expensive in this economy. Why double pay for spac…

Well, the short answer is: they mostly don't do "serious software engineering" - they do a lot of design (UX, mostly, but to some degree product design and graphic design) - and shuffle the UI around. The software engineering happens in short spurts, tucked away in conference rooms with the door closed, or after hours when the managers have gone home (...assuming the managers go home. I worked in an office where those people tended to still be there at 8pm)

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#157

Post by cujo » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #86

cujo wrote: post #38

Wow. Why are we all of a sudden so interested in what Yahoo is doing these days? They aren't a leader in, well, anything, but now the internet is in a frenzy about this work-from-home recall. How's this for an idea? Let's see if Yahoo is a company worth looking at for leadership. They aren't? Oh. Then let their policies die with them.

Well, people who like the idea of working from home don't like the bad publicity remote working is getting from the ban at Yahoo.

I get that. It's just a dead horse at this point. The only ones keeping it alive seem to be the defensive work-at-home people.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#158

Post by mikec3k » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

I worked for a company that's 100% remote workers. It didn't work for me, because I had too many distractions at home & my friends thought I wasn't working and always asked me to do errands during the day. On the other hand, it obviously worked for a lot of people, since they've been in business for 20 years doing custom programming.

That taught me that I actually prefer working in an office, as long as I don't have to drive to work.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#159

Post by gojomo » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

It is possible to believe both of the following:

(A) Remote working is a good thing, and the best companies will embrace it, now and increasingly in the future.

(B) Ending remote working arrangements is the right thing for Yahoo right now.

There is a path-dependence in corporate structures and cultures. Yahoo needs big changes. Even somewhat arbitrary changes with collateral damage could help re-form habits of interaction.

Re: No more remote work at Yahoo

#160

Post by googoobaby » Mon, Feb 25, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

First, Yahoo has been drifting in mediocrity for a while, coming from the top as well as from the bottom.

Second, they hired a CEO who was never a real manager from a place which was successful despite their own dysfunctional management structure.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Replacing Yahoo's dysfunction with a childish copy of Google's prejudices is not the answer.